NEX-5 Video - crazy shutter speeds.

Started Jan 29, 2011 | Discussions
izash
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NEX-5 Video - crazy shutter speeds.
Jan 29, 2011

Hi,

Since I wasn't happy with what the shutter speeds did to NEX video, especially with the 18-55 kit lens, I downloaded the demo of DVMP Pro, to check on the shutter speeds of my videos, using AVCHD Metadata.

The shutter speeds range from 1/25 to 1/2000 on sunny days.

Now that I can measure the shutter speeds in video mode, I'll do some tests with my new Fader ND filter and try to establish a system for controlling shutter speeds.

How I wish Sony would let us control shutter speeds in video mode...

Good night

Izhar

jazzroy1972
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Re: NEX-5 Video - crazy shutter speeds.
In reply to izash, Jan 29, 2011

you still cannot control ISO..
but could you tell us if shutter speed changes during a video?

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izash
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Re: NEX-5 Video - crazy shutter speeds.
In reply to jazzroy1972, Jan 29, 2011

ISO is not a variable in video mode. The NEX keeps it at 200.

You can actually see shutter speeds changing during a shot, as the light changes!

Izhar

jazzroy1972 wrote:

you still cannot control ISO..
but could you tell us if shutter speed changes during a video?

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Leo Fischel
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Re: NEX-5 Video - crazy shutter speeds.
In reply to izash, Jan 29, 2011

Does the shutter works on videos? I thought it is open all the time and if not: Why can't I hear the shutter?

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Jorisbass
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Re: NEX-5 Video - crazy shutter speeds.
In reply to Leo Fischel, Jan 29, 2011

During video, exposure time is controlled electronically (I guess by enabling and disabling the photo diodes on the chip).

The mechanical shutter is far too slow for this.

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GodSpeaks
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Re: NEX-5 Video - crazy shutter speeds.
In reply to izash, Jan 29, 2011

Prior to shooting video, put your camera into Shutter priority mode. Set the shutter speed to 1/60 second and shoot. The shutter speed should stay locked.

Aperture, on the other hand... and you may need an ND filter for very bright days.

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GaryW
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Re: NEX-5 Video - crazy shutter speeds.
In reply to GodSpeaks, Jan 29, 2011

GodSpeaks wrote:

Prior to shooting video, put your camera into Shutter priority mode. Set the shutter speed to 1/60 second and shoot. The shutter speed should stay locked.

???

I thought it was the other way--set aperture, and that setting is preserved in video mode. So you couldn't directly change the shutter, but you can effectively force it to be slower when using a wider aperture. Besides, I would think many would like to set aperture for aesthetic reasons.

Aperture, on the other hand... and you may need an ND filter for very bright days.

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Gary W.

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GodSpeaks
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Re: NEX-5 Video - crazy shutter speeds.
In reply to GaryW, Jan 30, 2011

GaryW wrote:

I thought it was the other way--set aperture, and that setting is preserved in video mode. So you couldn't directly change the shutter, but you can effectively force it to be slower when using a wider aperture. Besides, I would think many would like to set aperture for aesthetic reasons.

The one thing you do not want in video, is a fast shutter speed. That leads to jerky motion... ie: non fluid. So it is best when shooting video to control the shutter speed.

You can also control the aperture, and that is easiest to do using a legacy lens where you can manually set the aperture. You would then use ND filters to bring the exposure down to where you wanted it (assuming plenty of light).

But that process is obviously not for casual shooting.

Oh, and turn OFF AF. Focus hunting in HD really looks horrible.

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Amateur Sony Shooter
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What speed during video?
In reply to GodSpeaks, Jan 30, 2011

Sorry for my dumb question. Is it shutter only apply when you take still pictures? For video recording my understanding is that the shutter always remain open. I heard lots of talks about "rolling shutter", "jittery", etc. Can someone explain to me in plain language. What happened when still camera is doing video recording?

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Higgins2002
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Re: NEX-5 Video - crazy shutter speeds.
In reply to GodSpeaks, Jan 30, 2011

GodSpeaks wrote:

Prior to shooting video, put your camera into Shutter priority mode. Set the shutter speed to 1/60 second and shoot. The shutter speed should stay locked.

Aperture, on the other hand... and you may need an ND filter for very bright days.

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Yes 2x fps is the way to go...

  • 25p--> 1/50

  • 30p--> 1/60

But that's not possible to choose by yourself

NEX crippled videomode gives you:

Aperturemode to play with

you can always use F16-32 to get slower shutterspeed (and record all the dust on sensor too )

  • All the other modes doesn't affect the video at all

Too bad is:

You never get Sony do do manual video for the NEX3/5 because they aimed these models toward up-graders from P&S

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izash
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Re: NEX-5 Video - crazy shutter speeds.
In reply to Higgins2002, Jan 30, 2011

In the past few days I've been experimenting with Fader ND to control shutter speeds with decent results.

I set ISO at 200 as NEX records video at a constant ISO of 200. I choose A mode, chose my desired aperture and dial the Fader ND until shutter speed reaches 1/50.

When I checked the resulting AVCHD files, I noticed that shutter speeds moved between 1/50-1/60.

This is not ideal, but Fader ND is a savior and the resulting video looks much better when the shutter speeds are controlled.

Higgins2002 wrote:

GodSpeaks wrote:

Prior to shooting video, put your camera into Shutter priority mode. Set the shutter speed to 1/60 second and shoot. The shutter speed should stay locked.

Aperture, on the other hand... and you may need an ND filter for very bright days.

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  • Rayna Butler

Yes 2x fps is the way to go...

  • 25p--> 1/50

  • 30p--> 1/60

But that's not possible to choose by yourself

NEX crippled videomode gives you:

Aperturemode to play with

you can always use F16-32 to get slower shutterspeed (and record all the dust on sensor too )

  • All the other modes doesn't affect the video at all

Too bad is:

You never get Sony do do manual video for the NEX3/5 because they aimed these models toward up-graders from P&S

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alpi
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Re: NEX-5 Video - crazy shutter speeds.
In reply to izash, Jan 30, 2011

Just curious , how do you know NEX records at constant ISO 200 ?
(Is it showing up as gain figure in DVMP ?)

izash wrote:

I set ISO at 200 as NEX records video at a constant ISO of 200. I choose A mode, chose my desired aperture and dial the Fader ND until shutter speed reaches 1/50.

When I checked the resulting AVCHD files, I noticed that shutter speeds moved between 1/50-1/60.

This is not ideal, but Fader ND is a savior and the resulting video looks much better when the shutter speeds are controlled.

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Higgins2002
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Re: NEX-5 Video - crazy shutter speeds.
In reply to alpi, Jan 30, 2011

You can set whatever ISO you want but it doesn't affect the movie mode .. so kind of pointless.

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Higgins2002
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Re: NEX-5 Video - crazy shutter speeds.
In reply to Higgins2002, Jan 30, 2011

Gain in DVmp is probably connected to ISO.

It seems like GAIN in DVmp never going higher than 27dB

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Oelph
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Re: NEX-5 Video - crazy shutter speeds.
In reply to Higgins2002, Jan 30, 2011

Izash, thank you for sharing your results.

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alpi
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Re: NEX-5 Video - crazy shutter speeds.
In reply to Higgins2002, Jan 30, 2011

Which is why it would be nice to have gain limiter as well as control of shutter speed.

Higgins2002 wrote:

Gain in DVmp is probably connected to ISO.

It seems like GAIN in DVmp never going higher than 27dB

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danw82
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Re: NEX-5 Video - crazy shutter speeds.
In reply to alpi, Jan 30, 2011

alpi wrote:

Just curious , how do you know NEX records at constant ISO 200 ?
(Is it showing up as gain figure in DVMP ?)

I've not done anything to back up the observation, but I got the impression that if the video would otherwise underexpose even at 1/50 shutter, or whatever the minimum is for video, that it automatically cranked the gain/iso to compensate. I've tried shooting the same video in poor lighting with f1.7 and f5.6, and the f1.7 video came out with noticably lower noise.

It is a shame, if it was simple enough for Sony to enable aperture locking in the last firmware, I can't really see that it would be much of a stretch to extend that to shutter and ISO... simple additions and it would make video far more useful.

It'd be nice if they let us pick a higher video bitrate too, assuming the encoding chip could handle the bandwidth.

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alpi
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Re: NEX-5 Video - crazy shutter speeds.
In reply to danw82, Jan 31, 2011

That would make more sense. I just wondered if maybe DVMP was mis-interpreting or missing metadata resulting in a constant gain figure being reported.

Just downloaded it and gave it try myself on a range of short clips. It gave gain figures from 3 dB to 27 dB in a range of conditions from bright to low light which would be roughly what you would expect.

danw82 wrote:

alpi wrote:

Just curious , how do you know NEX records at constant ISO 200 ?
(Is it showing up as gain figure in DVMP ?)

I've not done anything to back up the observation, but I got the impression that if the video would otherwise underexpose even at 1/50 shutter, or whatever the minimum is for video, that it automatically cranked the gain/iso to compensate. I've tried shooting the same video in poor lighting with f1.7 and f5.6, and the f1.7 video came out with noticably lower noise.

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GodSpeaks
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Re: What speed during video?
In reply to Amateur Sony Shooter, Jan 31, 2011

Amateur Sony Shooter wrote:

Sorry for my dumb question. Is it shutter only apply when you take still pictures? For video recording my understanding is that the shutter always remain open. I heard lots of talks about "rolling shutter", "jittery", etc. Can someone explain to me in plain language. What happened when still camera is doing video recording?

When talking about video we are talking about the electronic shutter, not the mechanical one.

An electronic shutter will capture a frame off the sensor and give it a timed exposure (shutter speed). It does this 24, 25 or 30 times per second (depending on the frame rate of the video).

The mechanical shutter is only for stills. If it was used for video I think it would have a pretty short life, assuming it could even keep up with the frame rate.

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zoranT
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to make things clear
In reply to izash, Jan 31, 2011

1) ISO gain does change in video mode - visible and obvious with the noise in low light surroundings (where would the noise come from?); however, very bright lenses behave more favourably than the kit lenses; less noise

2) You cannot control shutter speeds directly in video mode; you only crank up aperture value, but then ISO value may increase as well; the exact algorithm and behaviour in relation to light, aperture, circumstances etc. is hard to understand

izash wrote:
ISO is not a variable in video mode. The NEX keeps it at 200.

You can actually see shutter speeds changing during a shot, as the light changes!

Izhar

jazzroy1972 wrote:

you still cannot control ISO..
but could you tell us if shutter speed changes during a video?

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