Fuji X100 vs. Leica X1 vs. Gf1 w/20mm pancake

Started Jan 16, 2011 | Discussions
Photohobbyfun
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Fuji X100 vs. Leica X1 vs. Gf1 w/20mm pancake
Jan 16, 2011

Anyone else considering these three cameras?

Fuji X100 - $1200

Leica X1 - $2000

GF1 w/20mm pancake - 650

As we go from the GF1 to the X100 to the X1 we almost double in price. So what are your reasons for picking one over the other? Comparisons show that considering all things, the X1 produces only slightly better images than the GF1 w/20mm pancake. The higher ISO performance of the X1 is negated mostly by the fast 1.7 pancake. When shooting in raw the image quality difference are said to not become readily apparent till you print larger than 13x19.

Is it on image quality alone? And if it is how much better than the GF1 (or the GF3 that is rumored to be announced soon) does the IQ from the X100 have to be?

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Re: Fuji X100 vs. Leica X1 vs. Gf1 w/20mm pancake
In reply to Photohobbyfun, Jan 16, 2011

Photohobbyfun wrote:

Anyone else considering these three cameras?

Fuji X100 - $1200

Yes.

Leica X1 - $2000

No, no optical viewfinder, so no sale.

GF1 w/20mm pancake - 650

Same, no optical viewfinder, not interested.

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palincss
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Re: Fuji X100 vs. Leica X1 vs. Gf1 w/20mm pancake
In reply to Photohobbyfun, Jan 16, 2011

Photohobbyfun wrote:

Is it on image quality alone? And if it is how much better than the GF1 (or the GF3 that is rumored to be announced soon) does the IQ from the X100 have to be?

Clearly the controls and ergonomics figure into it pretty heavily.

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R Ortiz
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Re: Fuji X100 vs. Leica X1 vs. Gf1 w/20mm pancake
In reply to Photohobbyfun, Jan 17, 2011

Photohobbyfun wrote:

Anyone else considering these three cameras?

Fuji X100 - $1200

Leica X1 - $2000

GF1 w/20mm pancake - 650

All three cameras will (likely) produce excellent images, so for me it's all about these things:

  • Integrated viewfinder - X100 only

  • Interchangeable lenses - GF1 only (or EP2 or EPL2)

  • Dedicated controls for aperture, shutter & EV comp. - X100 and X1

If Panasonic or Olympus came out with a m4/3 model with an integrated viewfinder, it would be a serious contender for my money.

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Bokeh_freak
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Re: Fuji X100 vs. Leica X1 vs. Gf1 w/20mm pancake
In reply to R Ortiz, Jan 19, 2011

R Ortiz wrote:

All three cameras will (likely) produce excellent images

The GF1 has a micro 4/3 sensor compared to the APS-C sensor in the X100 and X1. That makes it subpar compared to the X100 in terms of IQ, at least in low light and HDR situations. With that said, the GF1's price and size seem to keep it competitive.

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Re: Fuji X100 vs. Leica X1 vs. Gf1 w/20mm pancake
In reply to Bokeh_freak, Jan 19, 2011

Bokeh_freak wrote:

R Ortiz wrote:

All three cameras will (likely) produce excellent images

The GF1 has a micro 4/3 sensor compared to the APS-C sensor in the X100 and X1. That makes it subpar compared to the X100 in terms of IQ, at least in low light and HDR situations. With that said, the GF1's price and size seem to keep it competitive.

Add in the price of the optional viewfinder.

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ZoranC
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Re: Fuji X100 vs. Leica X1 vs. Gf1 w/20mm pancake
In reply to Photohobbyfun, Jan 19, 2011

Photohobbyfun wrote:

Anyone else considering these three cameras?

Fuji X100 - $1200

Nope, not until the quality is proven and price takes a severe dive.

Leica X1 - $2000

Nope.

GF1 w/20mm pancake - 650

Nope. No IS and no VF.

I went with EP2 and 20/1.7.

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Bokeh_freak
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Re: Fuji X100 vs. Leica X1 vs. Gf1 w/20mm pancake
In reply to rattymouse, Jan 19, 2011

rattymouse wrote:

Add in the price of the optional viewfinder.

Ok I take that back. I added the price of the viewfinder to the GF1 with F1.7 Pancake lens $950 + $150(viewfinder) = $1100! And this is not even the GF2. Better just wait for the X100...

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Re: Fuji X100 vs. Leica X1 vs. Gf1 w/20mm pancake
In reply to Bokeh_freak, Jan 19, 2011

Bokeh_freak wrote:

rattymouse wrote:

Add in the price of the optional viewfinder.

Ok I take that back. I added the price of the viewfinder to the GF1 with F1.7 Pancake lens $950 + $150(viewfinder) = $1100! And this is not even the GF2. Better just wait for the X100...

That extra $100 buys you an optical viewfinder, the hybrid display, far far better controls, a larger sensor, a (most likely) far far better lens,......

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Photohobbyfun
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Re: Fuji X100 vs. Leica X1 vs. Gf1 w/20mm pancake
In reply to Bokeh_freak, Jan 19, 2011

Bokeh_freak wrote:

rattymouse wrote:

Add in the price of the optional viewfinder.

Ok I take that back. I added the price of the viewfinder to the GF1 with F1.7 Pancake lens $950 + $150(viewfinder) = $1100! And this is not even the GF2. Better just wait for the X100...

Where are you getting your prices from?

Sammys camera had the GF1 Body on sale a few days ago for $300, they are out of stock now though. A few weeks ago they had the GF1+20mm pancake on sale for $500 as well.

If you were to buy it today, all from BHPhoto the price of the GF1($420)+20mm pancake (315) + Viewfinder ($160) would be $895. That's $200 less than what you came up with. I guess you're quoting MSRP but it's easy to find this camera discounted.

The X100 is still about $300 more expensive and you have to give the GF1 value added points for being able to change lenses. About $370 lets you add an excellent quality 28mm equivalent lens. Assuming Fuji makes another focal length (and you want it) then that will probably be another $1200.

Obviously the Fuji has the hybrid optical viewfinder which is probably going to be revolutionary and which I expect other camera makers will try to copy, or do they have some type of patent that would prevent anyone from copying the idea? Fuji did say they expect other manufactures to follow suit so maybe not.

Rumor on the street is that the Fuji X100 will be officially announced at CP+ and that the GF3 will also be announced. Rumors say the GF3 will also have a built in viewfinder.

Ultimately, for me to pick the X100 over the GF3, the X100 is going to have to have a significant leg up on image quality but I'm having some doubt seeing as to how the Leica X1 doesn't run miles around the GF1+20mm pancake. A GF3 with a viewfinder I'm sure will make choices even harder.

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ZoranC
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Re: Fuji X100 vs. Leica X1 vs. Gf1 w/20mm pancake
In reply to rattymouse, Jan 19, 2011

rattymouse wrote:

Bokeh_freak wrote:

rattymouse wrote:

Add in the price of the optional viewfinder.

Ok I take that back. I added the price of the viewfinder to the GF1 with F1.7 Pancake lens $950 + $150(viewfinder) = $1100! And this is not even the GF2. Better just wait for the X100...

That extra $100 buys you an optical viewfinder, the hybrid display, far far better controls, a larger sensor, a (most likely) far far better lens,......

First math is off and example is bad. Let's use better example. Amazon was selling EP2+17/2.8 through holidays for $514. Sell 17/2.8 from a kit for $200 and that puts you at $314. Add 20/1.7 for $330 and VF2 for $230. That puts you at $874. not $1100. You are off by over $200.

Second, one could say X100 gives you all the things listed above for "only" $325 more but one could also say you are paying $325 more and still not getting following:

1. Flexibility of interchangeable lenses with some incredible lenses available either in native mount or through adapters.

2. Image stabilization.

3. Much lesser cost next time you need to change focal length

4. Not missing shots that require different focal length.

In other words, regardless of how much rabid fanbois tout X100 as solution for everything in this world, including world peace forever, no tool in this world is perfect end it all, everything has it's pros and cons, sometimes you need a screwdriver, sometimes you need a hammer.

To claim anything else and to close eyes to everything else is just plain stupid.

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brudy
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Re: Fuji X100 vs. Leica X1 vs. Gf1 w/20mm pancake
In reply to Photohobbyfun, Jan 19, 2011

I'm torn between the Gf1/gf2, the x100, the new olympus zr-1 thingie as a complement to my Canon 7D. I've seen awesome shots with the GF1/1.7 combo, but the fuji has the manual controls and the vf (and the larger sensor). I'm leaning towards the x100 but I'm waiting till it's released to see what the image quality is like.

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Skipper494
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Re: Fuji X100 vs. Leica X1 vs. Gf1 w/20mm pancake
In reply to Photohobbyfun, Jan 19, 2011

If you want good IQ, get a Nikon D90, or even a P7000, either will outperform a M-4/3.

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atieuli
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Re: Fuji X100 vs. Leica X1 vs. Gf1 w/20mm pancake
In reply to ZoranC, Jan 20, 2011

jeez. A lot of anger there about a pretty cool new camera.
fanbois?

Anyway, I recently had my GF1 with the pancake lens stolen. I was using it as a fill in camera because like most people, I don't want to carry around a big dSLR all the time. Or, more to the point, I was missing tons of great shots in my day to day life because I only use my dSLR's for work. I tried a few higher end point and shoots like the Lx5, but was extremely disappointed with the IQ so I returned it. I decided on the GF1 and really ended up liking and using it a lot. The image quality is superb. The focal length is a bit wide for an all purpose lens though. (if you try to fill the frame with a head and shoulders portrait, it gets a little wonky distortion going.)

Anyway, when it got stolen, I went online intending to just buy another, but then I stumbled across the X100.

This camera has a MUCH bigger sensor and a far superior lens to the GF1. It also has a SLIGHTLY longer focal length. Plus the built in OVF is huge. As far as I'm concerned, if I'm going to carry a compact, I dont want to have to carry around accessories that should be basics like the plug in EVF on the GF1.

Anyway, just wanted to throw my two cents in. I think the GF1 is great and I'd be happy to own it again. I don't know what the GF3 plans are, but I was already getting turned off by the touch screen and other fanciness of the GF2.
To say that you'd be paying an extra $300 for the same thing by buying the X100

instead of the GF1 is crazy talk. Assuming you'd be shooting RAW, the results out of the X100 should be far superior just from the lens quality and sensor alone.
(not to mention I think it's a hell of a lot sexier than the GF1)

just to round it out, I haven't even considered the X1, mostly because of the pricetag.
(I also don't like the idea of a retracting fixed focal length lens.)

I pre-ordered my X100 a couple days ago.

update: just checked amazon and the GF1 with pancake is $969.00 right now.

I got it 4 months ago for $650 but everyone is running out of them so the prices seem to be going up.

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CAcreeks
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Re: Fuji X100 vs. Leica X1 vs. Gf1 w/20mm pancake
In reply to Skipper494, Jan 20, 2011

Skipper494 wrote:

If you want good IQ, get a [DSLR], or even a P7000, either will outperform a M-4/3.

Except in speed of menu operations, I suppose.

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rube39
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Re: Fuji X100 vs. Leica X1 vs. Gf1 w/20mm pancake
In reply to atieuli, Jan 20, 2011

atieuli wrote:

update: just checked amazon and the GF1 with pancake is $969.00 right now.

I got it 4 months ago for $650 but everyone is running out of them so the prices seem to be going up.

You can get the GF1 body only in Japan online for ¥24,000!
But they are running out.

If I didn't have the EP1 and the Japanese pannys had international menus, I would go for it myself.

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buckshot
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Re: Fuji X100 vs. Leica X1 vs. Gf1 w/20mm pancake
In reply to Skipper494, Jan 20, 2011

Skipper494

a P7000 will outperform a M-4/3? I find that hard to believe. The GF1 has a much larger sensor with a much lower pixel density ... just sayin

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SDF
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Re: Fuji X100 vs. Leica X1 vs. Gf1 w/20mm pancake
In reply to atieuli, Jan 20, 2011

ZoranC, why are you consistently trying to sell epl2 to potential X100 buyers?

If I want a M4/3, I will be spending days and nights on the m4/3 forum reading reviews and specs.

Let people buy whatever they, it's the free world.

I for one, coming to both fuji forums everyday to see new updates, details and hopefully the amazon preorder link on X100.

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Ray1684
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Re: Fuji X100 vs. Leica X1 vs. Gf1 w/20mm pancake
In reply to SDF, Jan 20, 2011

Definitely interested in the X100 when its out on the market. $1200 is a pretty decent price to pay. I've gone from a GF1 w/ 20mm lens to a Ricoh GXR with 50mm lens (APSC Sensor), and now I'm interested in adding the 35mm focal length to my arsenal. Have to say though, that the GF1 is very good value for what it is and is capable of taking great photos. The GXR on the other hand is a tad too slow in terms of widest aperture and focusing speed. Hopefully Fujifilm nails the AF and focusing speed on its launch date (rumors of focusing speeds being as fast as entry level dslrs)

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ZoranC
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Re: Fuji X100 vs. Leica X1 vs. Gf1 w/20mm pancake
In reply to SDF, Jan 20, 2011

SDF wrote:

ZoranC, why are you consistently trying to sell epl2 to potential X100 buyers?

Because I was answering OP's question. OP did ask about m43 system and did ask why one would pick one over the other.

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