Amazon Stops Selling Nikon 24mm f/1.4G?

Started May 8, 2010 | Discussions
cisro
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Amazon Stops Selling Nikon 24mm f/1.4G?
May 8, 2010

It looks like Amazon has pulled Nikon 24mm f/1.4G from its site, not even taking orders. Is it because of too many returns so far?

exit here
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Re: Amazon Stops Selling Nikon 24mm f/1.4G?
In reply to cisro, May 8, 2010

The focus errors are getting a bit of press at http://diglloyd.com/diglloyd/index.html as well.

If you have the 24, lloyd has a survey in which you might wish to contribute your experiences. He also has an excellent review of the 24.

..............................................................................................................

If you have the new 24mm f/1.4G, please take the above short survey. I’ll try to see if there is a common thread among camera bodies or focus mode and/or distance.

But four instances (mine plus 3 others) shows that something is very, very wrong with the new Nikon 24mm f/1.4G focusing. Caution advised until Nikon sorts this out.

David Hill reports the following:

My first copy of the lens, tested on two different D3s bodies, had frequent erratic focusing errors, essentially indicating a false focus that was way, way off. Particularly when attempting a landscape focus on anything further out than 10 feet, it would frequently focus on the foreground, or perhaps half way to the subject, when something near infinity was intended. Occasionally it would hit perfect focus on a distant landscape, and when it did the results were amazing, but it did not hit often enough to be useful in the manner that a professional wants to employ such a lens.

Also, it had issues being consistent on up close targets, but to a lesser degree. Its inconsistency fell into the type of pattern which cannot be addressed by an AF Fine Tune offset, and I'm sure you know what I mean by that without me having to elaborate. I posted some of my crops to DPReview, where you may have seen them. My issue is essentially very similar to that described in the reader report that you posted from Anrej today. One difference I would note is that mine would sometimes focus behind a near target, despite the near target filling the single AF point by three times the point's width. It was essentially just bad, and I was very disappointed.

Coincidentally, the problem I had with this lens was basically the same problem that I have been having with the 50/1.4G, except that the 24 is more extreme, by far the worst AF Nikkor I have owned. In fact, I hate to say "worst," because all my other AF Nikkors work great (after calibration or replacement in some cases, though). This has caused me some concern as to the future of Nikon's evolving G prime lineup.

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cisro
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Re: Amazon Stops Selling Nikon 24mm f/1.4G?
In reply to exit here, May 8, 2010

It seems like Nikon's QC is fast approaching the Chinese's. Made-in-Japan turns out to be worse than those lenses have Made-in-China label. Blame it on Nikon's aging workforce in Japan?

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zoomring
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Re: Amazon Stops Selling Nikon 24mm f/1.4G?
In reply to cisro, May 8, 2010

I think Nikon is tinkering too much with the AF-S design and AF mechanisms inside the camera!

All my screw driven lenses focus spot on, my AF-S F/2.8 lenses have a higher mis-focus ratio. The camera focus micro adjustment doesn'thelp since focusing errors are different at different distances.

I thik the two new large F/1.4 primes are exposing the system weakness even further

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cisro
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Re: Amazon Stops Selling Nikon 24mm f/1.4G?
In reply to zoomring, May 8, 2010

They need to install a more powerful motor in the first place. I sense they tried to cut corners in the first place.

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intruder61
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Re: Amazon Stops Selling Nikon 24mm f/1.4G?
In reply to zoomring, May 8, 2010

anyone POST SOME PICS of this so called issue??????? ANYONE??????

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Photo_AK
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Re: Amazon Stops Selling Nikon 24mm f/1.4G?
In reply to intruder61, May 8, 2010

intruder61 wrote:

anyone POST SOME PICS of this so called issue??????? ANYONE??????

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1030&thread=35259990

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canterel
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Re: Amazon Stops Selling Nikon 24mm f/1.4G?
In reply to exit here, May 8, 2010

i don't know how people are having focus errors... how did they get a hold of a copy of this lens? i can't find one anywhere, and i can't believe amazon just canceled my almost 3 month old preorder.

if anyone has a copy of this lens they're not happy with because they are experiencing focus errors, please email me. i will buy it for your purchase price + $100.

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gmosc
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Re: Amazon Stops Selling Nikon 24mm f/1.4G?
In reply to intruder61, May 8, 2010

intruder,

I like your style. First you ask for pics, then someone posts a link to a person who is detailing what he found and then you post this...

"if i understand correctly the first copy was no good...
your on your second copy of this lens with the same problem.....
half of your pics are focused, half are not....
user error?"

Do you need the examples to come and bite you on the butt to admit that there possibly COULD be a problem?

This forum gets more depressing by the hour.

Guy Moscoso

intruder61 wrote:

anyone POST SOME PICS of this so called issue??????? ANYONE??????

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Leonard Shepherd
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Re: Common sense - or no common sense?
In reply to gmosc, May 8, 2010

gmosc wrote:

Do you need the examples to come and bite you on the butt to admit that there possibly COULD be a problem?

Have you got your brain in gear?

Unlike you I have used one of these lenses and, used with common sense (which some posting seem not to posses), it focused fine.
Some-one "describing" is not the same as some-one knowing what they were doing.

When the Canon 550D was first launched according to the web at least 50% front focused, presumably because many buying them did not know how to use a camera where default AF is closest subject priority.

And so it probably is with the 24mm f1.4. Those with common sense realise small or fine detail AF targets (what you often get using wide angles) often cause in camera AF mis focus - which is not the same as a lens fault.

For those without common sense Nikon explain this in their camera body instruction book or at http://nikoneurope-en.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4585

Having examined over 500 claims about faults with AF supported by images I have seen only 2 using "common sense" AF targets - with the other 500+ confirming nothing other than the photographer did not used the equipment sensibly.

Nikon say they check every lens for focus accuracy and resolution before bit leaves the factory and I have tested over 40 new Nikon lenses - every-one resolvied over 100 lpm using AF.

There seems an amazing lack of images by any of the people complaining so my money is on them either being trolls or not knowing how to use camera equipment sensibly.
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gmosc
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Re: Common sense - or no common sense?
In reply to Leonard Shepherd, May 8, 2010

Hey Leonard,

I recognize this cut and paste response stuff that you've had been posting a while ago (maybe 500 times as you mention at the bottom of the post.)

I hope you don't fall into that rut again. I hope you use the good analytical abilities I've seen you use after putting this cut and paste response in the drawer. Something about it turns people off and rarely brings people aboard to your defense of Nikon.

Personally, I see a possible crack in your argument on the 85/1.4 AF. Now I haven't used it but from what I gather of your argument here, it would suffer the identical problems to the newer f1.4 lenses. And then anything with max aperture of f2.8 would focus better.

Guy Moscoso

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

gmosc wrote:

Do you need the examples to come and bite you on the butt to admit that there possibly COULD be a problem?

Have you got your brain in gear?

Unlike you I have used one of these lenses and, used with common sense (which some posting seem not to posses), it focused fine.
Some-one "describing" is not the same as some-one knowing what they were doing.

When the Canon 550D was first launched according to the web at least 50% front focused, presumably because many buying them did not know how to use a camera where default AF is closest subject priority.

And so it probably is with the 24mm f1.4. Those with common sense realise small or fine detail AF targets (what you often get using wide angles) often cause in camera AF mis focus - which is not the same as a lens fault.

For those without common sense Nikon explain this in their camera body instruction book or at http://nikoneurope-en.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4585

Having examined over 500 claims about faults with AF supported by images I have seen only 2 using "common sense" AF targets - with the other 500+ confirming nothing other than the photographer did not used the equipment sensibly.

Nikon say they check every lens for focus accuracy and resolution before bit leaves the factory and I have tested over 40 new Nikon lenses - every-one resolvied over 100 lpm using AF.

There seems an amazing lack of images by any of the people complaining so my money is on them either being trolls or not knowing how to use camera equipment sensibly.
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em_dee_aitch
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Re: Common sense - or no common sense?
In reply to Leonard Shepherd, May 8, 2010

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

And so it probably is with the 24mm f1.4. Those with common sense realise small or fine detail AF targets (what you often get using wide angles) often cause in camera AF mis focus - which is not the same as a lens fault.

Leonard, while that argument might be true for some ignorant users, it is full of crap when put up against one like myself or Lloyd Chambers. Some of us know what we're doing... Furthermore, the Nikon lenses that actually work FAR better prove your point ridiculous: 28/1.4 AF-D, 50/1.4 AF-D, and 85/1.4 AF-D (all the older drive incidentally) all work better than 24/1.4 G. As to your more general notion that wide 1.4 lenses can't produce fine results, the Canon 24/1.4 lens (both versions of it) prove you entirely wrong. All of these lenses will perform way better on real world objects and textures (that you classify as "inducing error") far better than the 24/1.4 G. You have no answer to that.

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markdavis
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Re: Amazon Stops Selling Nikon 24mm f/1.4G?
In reply to exit here, May 9, 2010

i really think digilloyd is trying to get people to register and pay for his so called "Reviews"

there is no other reason for this rage against a probably faulty lens. he doesn't even try another copy... please...

canon's 1.4 lenses had similar threads. people couldn't focus and so on but they weren't bad samples

lloyd is so lame

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jb_va2001
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Why ask if it's "too many returns so far?"
In reply to cisro, May 9, 2010

Seems like there are many more possible reasons than "too many returns so far".

Unit sales too low, single item too expensive, limited availability...

Cheers,
JB

cisro wrote:

It looks like Amazon has pulled Nikon 24mm f/1.4G from its site, not even taking orders. Is it because of too many returns so far?

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em_dee_aitch
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Re: Amazon Stops Selling Nikon 24mm f/1.4G?
In reply to markdavis, May 9, 2010

markdavis wrote:

i really think digilloyd is trying to get people to register and pay for his so called "Reviews"

there is no other reason for this rage against a probably faulty lens. he doesn't even try another copy... please...

canon's 1.4 lenses had similar threads. people couldn't focus and so on but they weren't bad samples

First - do you even have one, or not know what you're talking about?

Second, how can you explain that those of us with other Nikon 1.4 lenses can focus them just fine on the same cameras? Lenses such as the 28/1.4 AFD, 50/1.4 AFD, and 85/1.4 AFD?

You can't. There are such thing as bad samples. I've had several of them, most whacked out being a 14-24. Replacing it with a non-whacked 14-24 immediately solved the problem, because the bad one was so far off that fine tune couldn't bring it back in. That's a bad sample.

The real question with the 24/1.4G is not whether the problems are real. They are definitely real. The question is whether it's a software issue, design issue, or random mechanical/optical faults (i.e. "bad sample"). If you don't understand that sample variation is real, then you haven't read anything about manufacturing. It is up to Nikon to answer the question of whether these are bad samples or whether the design is faulty, because, thus far, only Nikon has access to enough samples to make that determination. We should hope that they are just bad samples, and that Nikon will prove it by either fixing them or replacing them with copies that don't do this.

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noirdesir
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Re: Amazon Stops Selling Nikon 24mm f/1.4G?
In reply to markdavis, May 9, 2010

markdavis wrote:

i really think digilloyd is trying to get people to register and pay for his so called "Reviews"

Of course he is. He runs a business. But there is a difference between promoting oneself and lying to promote oneself (which is what you seem to imply Lloyd is doing).

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Vince Lagrange
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Re: Amazon Stops Selling Nikon 24mm f/1.4G?
In reply to markdavis, May 9, 2010

markdavis wrote:

i really think digilloyd is trying to get people to register and pay for his so called "Reviews"

there is no other reason for this rage against a probably faulty lens. he doesn't even try another copy... please...

After looking at the two recent pictures he posted and the severity of the supposed "misfire" he had I'm growing even more skeptical about the validity of his tests and claims. I'm sure there are a minute percentage of out of calibration lenses out here, but this is getting ridiculous and unbelievable.

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Leonard Shepherd
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Re: Common sense - or no common sense?
In reply to em_dee_aitch, May 9, 2010

em_dee_aitch wrote:

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

And so it probably is with the 24mm f1.4. Those with common sense realise small or fine detail AF targets (what you often get using wide angles) often cause in camera AF mis focus - which is not the same as a lens fault.

Leonard, while that argument might be true for some ignorant users, it is full of crap when put up against one like myself or Lloyd Chambers. Some of us know what we're doing

I do what I am doing to.

Nikon confirm my point about possible focus error in every DSLR instruction book for every DSLR instruction book they have sold.

I first encountered the issue of fast lenses needing better quality AF targets than slower ones back in 2000 in the era of film, when (in Africa) the 80-400 VR at 300 f5.6 effective often read distant zebra stripes that caused the 300 f2.8 to hunt.

I have one location I shoot regular where the 18-200 at f5.6 reads with ease that causes the 70-200 at 200mm f2.8 to hunt.

I have to resort to manual focus for sharp results more often with the 50mm f1.4 than the 24-70 at 50mm f2.8.
Perhaps you should try testing more rigorously!

Nikon do not say when AF is likely to mis focus - other than with wide angles shooting DX.

My experience, which you can check out for yourselves is, when AF system mis focus occurs, it is often when using a faster aperture lens.

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Leonard Shepherd

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em_dee_aitch
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Re: Amazon Stops Selling Nikon 24mm f/1.4G?
In reply to Vince Lagrange, May 9, 2010

Vince Lagrange wrote:

markdavis wrote:

i really think digilloyd is trying to get people to register and pay for his so called "Reviews"

there is no other reason for this rage against a probably faulty lens. he doesn't even try another copy... please...

After looking at the two recent pictures he posted and the severity of the supposed "misfire" he had I'm growing even more skeptical about the validity of his tests and claims. I'm sure there are a minute percentage of out of calibration lenses out here, but this is getting ridiculous and unbelievable.

I'm not selling reviews as he is, and I've had two copies of the lens that miss by ridiculous margins like what he is showing. Mind you that for a given level of misfocus, his D3x shots should look 50 percent worse than mine, because he is using a D3x will magnify the issue more than a D3s.

If Nikon could eliminate the "ridiculous" or "wide" misses via a firmware update, then even I would acknowledge that the smaller errors might be explained away by being a 1.4 lens. However, no other 1.4 lens I have used throws such random errors as this one. That part of the issue is very real, and it's why this deserves attention.

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Leonard Shepherd
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Re: Common sense - or no common sense?
In reply to gmosc, May 9, 2010

gmosc wrote:

Hey Leonard,

I recognize this cut and paste response stuff that you've had been posting a while ago (maybe 500 times
Guy Moscoso

I do not cut and paste - amen.

I respond individually to any thread I reply as the nature of the problem varies slightly from thread to thread.
Nikon confirm the point I raise is correct in every DSLR instruction book.

It is extremely rare but not unknown to see a fault supported by an image that might not induce mis focus - see http://nikoneurope-en.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4585

If you have read my point 500 times and taken note of what Nikon say maybe you need to consider whether to get good results with AF it is time to discard a possible strong prejudice to accepting mis focus etc based on posted images is nearly always synonymous with using an AF target which camera manufactures (Canon as well a Nikon) say can induce mis focus.

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