Why do colors look different in Viveza compared to LR/CS3/etc

Started Dec 17, 2009 | Discussions
zieglp1
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Why do colors look different in Viveza compared to LR/CS3/etc
Dec 17, 2009

Whenever I take an image into Viveza the colors look over-saturated compared to how the image appears in Lightroom, Photoshop CS3, or any of the other Nik plug-ins (Dfine, Color Efex Pro, Sharpener Pro). I thought that maybe I had a different color space assigned for Viveza but I can't find anywhere to confirm or check the Viveza colorspace. When I bring the image back into Lightroom, it reverts to normal saturation. However, that makes working in Viveza pretty difficult since I don't have real-time feedback of my changes to color. Any ideas on why this only affects the Viveza plug-in and how I might go about fixing the problem? Thanks.

zieglp1
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Further information
In reply to zieglp1, Dec 17, 2009

I should have mentioned that the problem only exists when I enter Viveza through Lightroom. If I enter via Photoshop, the colors look correct. However, when I enter other Nik plug-ins via Lightroom, the colors look fine. Weird.

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sbrom
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Re: Further information
In reply to zieglp1, Dec 18, 2009

I had the same issue. Running under Vista 64, NIK told me this was a known issue in certain PC's with the lightroom version of Viveza. No workaround except to use it in Photoshop instead.

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sbrom

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Toermalijn
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Re: Further information
In reply to sbrom, Dec 18, 2009

sbrom wrote:

I had the same issue. Running under Vista 64, NIK told me this was a known issue in certain PC's with the lightroom version of Viveza. No workaround except to use it in Photoshop instead.

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sbrom

Doesn't it have something to do as how photoshop and lightroom work? You would think that lightroom would use the same colour-aware engine as photoshop is using?! Then all photo's should look the same on the same system.

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Toermalijn
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Re: Further information
In reply to Toermalijn, Dec 18, 2009

Toermalijn wrote:

sbrom wrote:

I had the same issue. Running under Vista 64, NIK told me this was a known issue in certain PC's with the lightroom version of Viveza. No workaround except to use it in Photoshop instead.

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Regards,
sbrom

Doesn't it have something to do as how photoshop and lightroom work? You would think that lightroom would use the same colour-aware engine as photoshop is using?! Then all photo's should look the same on the same system.

or and that is most likely, the photoshop plug-in has the better engine as photoshop is more sophisticated underneath the skin.

It happens sometimes that plug-ins for photoshop work betetr then the same for lightroom, so one would think that the plug-ins engine of photoshop is better and more sophisticated. What i have read somewhere is that lightroom actually doesn't use a plug-in engine, certainly not photoshop's engine.

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Toermalijn
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Re: Further information
In reply to Toermalijn, Dec 18, 2009

Toermalijn wrote:

Toermalijn wrote:

sbrom wrote:

I had the same issue. Running under Vista 64, NIK told me this was a known issue in certain PC's with the lightroom version of Viveza. No workaround except to use it in Photoshop instead.

-- hide signature --

Regards,
sbrom

Doesn't it have something to do as how photoshop and lightroom work? You would think that lightroom would use the same colour-aware engine as photoshop is using?! Then all photo's should look the same on the same system.

or and that is most likely, the photoshop plug-in has the better engine as photoshop is more sophisticated underneath the skin.

It happens sometimes that plug-ins for photoshop work betetr then the same for lightroom, so one would think that the plug-ins engine of photoshop is better and more sophisticated. What i have read somewhere is that lightroom actually doesn't use a plug-in engine, certainly not photoshop's engine.

I forgot;

in photoshop there are two versions of plug-ins used. Ones that go outside photoshop and use their own engine and memory, or plug-ins that stay inside photoshop envirement and use photoshop resources.

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zieglp1
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Thanks
In reply to sbrom, Dec 18, 2009

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the information. I have a new computer on order, so hopefully it won't be an issue with the new machine (with Windows 7).

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Toermalijn
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Re: Thanks
In reply to zieglp1, Dec 19, 2009

zieglp1 wrote:

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the information. I have a new computer on order, so hopefully it won't be an issue with the new machine (with Windows 7).

I am also running windows 7 64 bit and it runs flawlessly. I am quite sure you'll really like windows 7. The best OS from microsoft in years.

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Jesper Lauritsen
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Re: Why do colors look different in Viveza compared to LR/CS3/etc
In reply to zieglp1, Jan 9, 2010

Hi,

I downloaded the demo version previously today and almost gave up imediatly because of this issue.

However, I discovered that it is somehow connected to me having two screens (the build-in screen on my Dell E4300 and my external LaCie 324) with differenct color profiles.

When I switch to using only the external screen I get the same colors in Lightroom and Viveza! That is the good thing; the bad thing is that they both have the wrong color. I am however fairly confident that a reprofiling with only one screen will fix this.

My guess is that on some hardware configurations with two screens Viveza chooses the profile for the wrong screen.

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Jesper

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richardplondon
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Re: Further information
In reply to Toermalijn, Jan 10, 2010

Toermalijn wrote:

in photoshop there are two versions of plug-ins used. Ones that go outside photoshop and use their own engine and memory, or plug-ins that stay inside photoshop envirement and use photoshop resources.

Lightroom plugins are all of the first kind AFAIK. There is not (yet) the ability in Lightroom to do the second thing. Although the LR menus may gain some extra items and what happens may appear quite transparent, as I understand it LR is only made to do things that it could do already . Any extra function needs a completely distinct program and data is usually passed to that via an external file on disk; not integrated within memory as with PS.

For example the LR/Enfuse plugin first causes LR to save temporary images onto disk (using its normal methods), and then runs the Enfuse commandline program as a separate application using these (telling it to save the result on disk), and then gets the OS to delete the temporary images.

RP

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richardplondon
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two monitor profiles OT
In reply to Jesper Lauritsen, Jan 10, 2010

Jesper Lauritsen wrote:

My guess is that on some hardware configurations with two screens Viveza chooses the profile for the wrong screen.

I'm curious: do you have them independently profiled? What OS version? I have encountered a different issue (not related to Viveza) but with similar symptoms.

RP

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Jesper Lauritsen
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Re: two monitor profiles on Windows 7 OT
In reply to richardplondon, Jan 10, 2010

richardplondon wrote:

Jesper Lauritsen wrote:

My guess is that on some hardware configurations with two screens Viveza chooses the profile for the wrong screen.

I'm curious: do you have them independently profiled? What OS version? I have encountered a different issue (not related to Viveza) but with similar symptoms.

RP

Im am running Windows 7 64bit profiled with an X-rite ColorMunki. Priviously I have had little luck getting different profiles for two monitors, but it seems like the E4300 protable has an graphics card with two LUT tables (although I have not been able to find any information about this). Largely it works with two profiles, but I have seen both Windows and specific apps with this kinds of problems before. And I have not been able to find much information about this kind of setup, even though it must be a quite common setup.

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richardplondon
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Re: two monitor profiles on Windows 7 OT
In reply to Jesper Lauritsen, Jan 10, 2010

Thanks for that info - I think there must be a lot of variation under different hardware setups; often it's a question of blindly poking at the thing until it cooperates

regards, RP

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Toermalijn
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Re: two monitor profiles on Windows 7 OT
In reply to richardplondon, Jan 10, 2010

richardplondon wrote:

Thanks for that info - I think there must be a lot of variation under different hardware setups; often it's a question of blindly poking at the thing until it cooperates

regards, RP

ues and no. Windows 7 has a fastly improved interface for profiling 2 or more monitors. I guess it's amixture of software and hardware, certain lcd screens are know to have rgb and sRGB profiles but when tested it turns out to be not the case. It still keeps more or less the rgb mode/gamut. Dispite you turn the sRGB mode on in the menu!

Some people might not know this.

Read some monitor review sites!

In windows 7 you can easally switch from and to any profile for your selected monitor, so you can make 2 specific profiles for rgb and sRGB.

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Jesper Lauritsen
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Re: two monitor profiles on Windows 7 OT
In reply to Toermalijn, Jan 10, 2010

ues and no. Windows 7 has a fastly improved interface for profiling 2 or more monitors. I guess it's amixture of software and hardware, certain lcd screens are know to have rgb and sRGB profiles but when tested it turns out to be not the case. It still keeps more or less the rgb mode/gamut. Dispite you turn the sRGB mode on in the menu!

Some people might not know this.

Read some monitor review sites!

In windows 7 you can easally switch from and to any profile for your selected monitor, so you can make 2 specific profiles for rgb and sRGB.

Sorry, I do not understand what your are meaning regarding rgb and sRGB profiles for the monitor?? In my view a monitor profiles describes the monitors colorspace and it is note relevant to call this rgb or sRGB (although I have seen some call a monitor an Adobe RGB monitor, but with that just meaning it kan show most of Adobe RGB and not just sRGB), but for sure there is a lot of this I do not quite understand, so I may well be mistaken. One of the reasons for me to chose a LaCie 324 is that it is fully calibrated by the X-rite software, so I do not think I have many choices in the monitor setup.

I would appreciate if you could explain a bit more and perhaps give a link to some pages at those monitor review sites.

Regards,
Jesper

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Toermalijn
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Re: two monitor profiles on Windows 7 OT
In reply to Jesper Lauritsen, Jan 10, 2010

Jesper Lauritsen wrote:

ues and no. Windows 7 has a fastly improved interface for profiling 2 or more monitors. I guess it's amixture of software and hardware, certain lcd screens are know to have rgb and sRGB profiles but when tested it turns out to be not the case. It still keeps more or less the rgb mode/gamut. Dispite you turn the sRGB mode on in the menu!

Some people might not know this.

Read some monitor review sites!

In windows 7 you can easally switch from and to any profile for your selected monitor, so you can make 2 specific profiles for rgb and sRGB.

Sorry, I do not understand what your are meaning regarding rgb and sRGB profiles for the monitor?? In my view a monitor profiles describes the monitors colorspace and it is note relevant to call this rgb or sRGB (although I have seen some call a monitor an Adobe RGB monitor, but with that just meaning it kan show most of Adobe RGB and not just sRGB), but for sure there is a lot of this I do not quite understand, so I may well be mistaken. One of the reasons for me to chose a LaCie 324 is that it is fully calibrated by the X-rite software, so I do not think I have many choices in the monitor setup.

I would appreciate if you could explain a bit more and perhaps give a link to some pages at those monitor review sites.

Regards,
Jesper

yes, it is very relevant as some lcd screens have menu lut's! Internal look up tables that have to be set accordingly before you hardware calibrate your monitor for the specific colourgamut/colourspace!

It turns out to be that some luts in fact don't go to sRGB but still are in rgb mode and fake sRGB mode! So, despite turning the menu sRGB on and profiling and calibrating it for sRGB space, you still might have oversaturated looking pictures on the screen!

Alot fake colourgamut where they should use a smaller gamut, but they don't! So, that is the hardware side of it!

It's not always software or microsofts' fault if something doesn't work propperly.

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Comapedrosa
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Re: Why do colors look different in Viveza compared to LR/CS3/etc
In reply to zieglp1, May 4, 2012

Hi,

I'm reviving this thread, since i'm having this exact same problem:

Win 7-64; 2 monitors (problems appears regardless of whether they are calibrated or not), LR4 and latest version of Nik Collection for Lightroom. Very frustrating, as it makes it pretty useless!

Has anyone found a solution/workaround?

Here's another thread i started about it, alas without resolution:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1006&message=41162321

Nik has already taken 3 weeks and counting without meaningful solution.

Here's another example with one of Nik's own photos: it shows the same file opened in a bunch of applications, including Lightroom and CS5 (it's actually a photo from Nik's webpage!). All applications display the same colors except for Viveza 2 - where the red is clearly over-saturated!

Thank you so much for your help!!
CP

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Comapedrosa
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screen shot
In reply to Comapedrosa, May 5, 2012

forgot the screenshot...

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Comapedrosa
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Re: Why do colors look different in Viveza compared to LR/CS3/etc
In reply to zieglp1, May 5, 2012

Just found one workaround: if i disable one monitor, the problem disappears! Seems as if Viveza doesn't read the monitors' color profiles if there's more than one...
--
http://www.35f2.com

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RolloWilliams
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Re: Why do colors look different in Viveza compared to LR/CS3/etc
In reply to Comapedrosa, Apr 12, 2013

Been having same issue.  Very frustrating.  Been working with Nik for several weeks on this.  I open an image with Photoshop CS6 and looks the same on both monitors.  Open the same image with Viveza 2 and it looks correct on monitor 1 but clearly oversaturates reds on monitor 2. Using Spyder 3 Pro. All color space settings are the same.  Sent the monitor profiles generated by the Spyder to Nik and they say that "my profiles" are creating the same issue on their system but they can't pinpoint which line of code is the culprit.  My question is, and has always been, why can Photoshop recognize seperate monitor profiles and Nik can't?  Using a video card with seperate LUT's and have created my own profile with an exagerated gamma to make it obvious and have successully assigned the profile to the monitor of my choice.  It just looks pretty obvious that Viveza 2 can't destinguish between seperate profiles although Nik insist it can.  They ask me to contact Datacolor for their assistance.  Still no word from them yet.  I have researched this thing to death but so far have failed.  I love Nik software, but this is a real problem.  Could another monitor calabriation software be the answer? I would appreciate any help!

Windows 7, Photoshop CS6, Lightroom 4, Nik Complete Collection, Nvidia GTX 480 video card, Monitor #1 Dell WMP 2007 (tool and pallet monitor) Monitor #2 Dell U2410 (final edit monitor)

Ron

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