My Orange Pentax K-x

Started Nov 14, 2009 | Discussions
pcarfan
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Re: My Orange Pentax K-x : mini review part III
In reply to DrugaRunda, Nov 16, 2009

DrugaRunda wrote:

interesting observation, perhaps lose a little sharpness to gain a bit of DR and high ISO quality...

in any case, the orange one looks brilliant, and if I get one it looks like orange is the color...

why didn't they decide to sell orange outside of Japan... hrmmm...
--
common sense is anything but common

Pentax people had eluded to the reason in the other forum. In Japan buyers are less likely to purchase a color and then change their mind and return it, they fear others will go through the rainbow of colors until they find what they want and return the rest.
--

http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/home#section=ARTIST&subSection=2323984&subSubSection=0&language=EN

K10D, K-7
Pentax Primes: DA21/3.2, FA*24/2, F28/2.8, FA43/1.9, FA77/1.8, F135/2.8
Sigma Zooms: Sigma 10-20, Sigma 100-300 F4

'Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming... 'Wow! What a ride!'

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trtt
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Re: My Orange Pentax K-x : mini review part III
In reply to Richard Murdey, Nov 16, 2009

Richard Murdey wrote:

Part III : Advanced image quality and pixel level evaluation at low ISO

[...]but the fact remains that at the pixel level the K10D produces far sharper images with far better contrast.

That's explained easily:

1. The K10D has probably the weakest AA Filter of any Pentax DSLR. That alone should get you sharper results at 100% view.

2. And the Sony 10MP CCD has it's sweet spot at lower isos while the acutal cmos sensors of samsung and sony are heavily optimized for high iso because thats what the consumer wants (they think).

If you need the best ISO100/200 iq, haing a properly exposed K10D raw picture beats any low iso from K20D,K7,K-X. Even if the newer batch of sensors have better SNR and higher resolution and are top notch modern, they can't be so clean and contrasty at iso100. But they deliver a good performance over a much greater iso range while with the K10D you have to stay in low iso and you have(!) to expose good because proper exposure is very important for K10D iq.

But when it comes to AF speed greater isos than 400 the newer pentax bodys are way better. So in return for a little low iso performance decrease the K-X should give you plenty good pictures in many situations where your K10D would'nt.

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Richard Murdey
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My Orange Pentax K-x : ISO test comparison with K10D
In reply to Richard Murdey, Nov 17, 2009

Both are in-camera 6MP JPEGS, AWB, "natural" image parameter, Kx has high iso NR turned off, K10D doesn't apply NR to in camera JPEGs. Pentax-A 50mm F2 at F8. SR off. Kx has highlight correction off, shadow correction off.

K10ISO100

K10ISO200

K10ISO400

K10ISO800

K10ISO1600

KxISO200

KxISO400

KxISO800

KxISO1600

KxISO3200

KxISO6400

 Richard Murdey's gear list:Richard Murdey's gear list
Nikon D40 Pentax K10D Nikon 1 V1 Nikon D600 Pentax smc FA 31mm F1.8 AL Limited +6 more
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Richard Murdey
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ISO test comparison with K10D at ISO400
In reply to Richard Murdey, Nov 17, 2009

ISO400 test images above, back to back:

K10

kx

Sorry the pen is missing. My daughter borrowed it temporarily during the test. Bet Simon doesn't run into those kinds of problems!

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Nikon D40 Pentax K10D Nikon 1 V1 Nikon D600 Pentax smc FA 31mm F1.8 AL Limited +6 more
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Richard Murdey
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Adobe Lightroom vs Pentax Codec
In reply to Richard Murdey, Nov 17, 2009

Adobe Lightroom Beta 3

Pentax Codec RAW conversion

It seems to be we've found the culprit .. again .. to be the Pentax JPEG engine. Adobe produces the sharpness and detail what I expected to see at 100% pixel viewing. The Pentax engine (in camera or bundled software, identical) is slightly soft, not simply unsharp , but physically soft-looking in texture.

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Nikon D40 Pentax K10D Nikon 1 V1 Nikon D600 Pentax smc FA 31mm F1.8 AL Limited +6 more
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Kesha
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Re: My Orange Pentax K-x
In reply to Richard Murdey, Nov 17, 2009

very eyecatching, orange color is very nice, I think.
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my multiply : http://kesha.multiply.com

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fotogen
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Re: My Orange Pentax K-x
In reply to Kesha, Nov 17, 2009

Where is the color/saturation gone in the k-x samples? Both are shot in "neutral" but the k-x lacking color!

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fskhoo
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Re: My Orange Pentax K-x : image quality second impression
In reply to Richard Murdey, Nov 17, 2009

Richard Murdey wrote:

The K-x is proving really tough to get a handle on. I'm gone through in camera-JPEG and now working with RAW and the bundled software.

In a nutshell the problem is I cannot duplicate the following kind of result, which I can easily enough manage with my K10D

All the K-x images have a slight fuzz/grain/blurriness at the pixel level no matter what I do. It's like dither is being added or something.

Richard,

This is exactly what I experienced with my K-x too. Am still struggling to tweak it to matched the pictures taken with my K10D. I found the K10D is so effortless to use. Not sure I have a lemon or Cmos and CCD sensor issue?

K10D,K-x,14f2.8,Tamron 18-250,35f2.Panasonic LC1,DMC-L1,Nikon FE2/50f1.4,Olympus C5060.

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Richard Murdey
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Re: My Orange Pentax K-x : mini review part III
In reply to pcarfan, Nov 17, 2009

pcarfan wrote:

Pentax people had eluded to the reason in the other forum. In Japan buyers are less likely to purchase a color and then change their mind and return it, they fear others will go through the rainbow of colors until they find what they want and return the rest.

The 100 Colors models are custom orders and cannot be returned or exchanged. That's clearly stated up front when you place your order.

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Nikon D40 Pentax K10D Nikon 1 V1 Nikon D600 Pentax smc FA 31mm F1.8 AL Limited +6 more
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Richard Murdey
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Re: My Orange Pentax K-x : image quality second impression
In reply to fskhoo, Nov 17, 2009

fskhoo wrote:

Richard Murdey wrote:

The K-x is proving really tough to get a handle on. I'm gone through in camera-JPEG and now working with RAW and the bundled software.

In a nutshell the problem is I cannot duplicate the following kind of result, which I can easily enough manage with my K10D

All the K-x images have a slight fuzz/grain/blurriness at the pixel level no matter what I do. It's like dither is being added or something.

Richard,

This is exactly what I experienced with my K-x too. Am still struggling to tweak it to matched the pictures taken with my K10D. I found the K10D is so effortless to use. Not sure I have a lemon or Cmos and CCD sensor issue?

My advice is to keep at it. For one thing, Adobe seems to give much better results out the box, for another I've gained some ground I think with the Pentax DCU4 software:

That's 100% pixels at ISO200, 6MP JPEG, with some boost to the contrast and saturation as well as other minor tweaks. Put it this way, if that had come from my D40 I would have been pretty darned impressed.

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Nikon D40 Pentax K10D Nikon 1 V1 Nikon D600 Pentax smc FA 31mm F1.8 AL Limited +6 more
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trtt
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Re: My Orange Pentax K-x : image quality second impression
In reply to fskhoo, Nov 17, 2009

You can't tweak a stronger aa filter with software.

The best tweak would be to get rid of it. Higher end cameras like Mamiya ZD do offer that as an option for the user. On a bayer ccd sensor like in the Mamiya you are trading color accuracy and moiré risk for greatly enhanced picture quality. On a foveon x3 sensor which by design comes with no aa filter you are trading sheer resolution for greatly enhanced pixel level quality.

All by all we only can hope Pentax (or competition) someday comes with a design which gives the power users the opportunity to enable or disable the aa filter without any hardware tweaks on a prosumer camera. Let the software correct moiré effects, not the hardware.

MFDB-users are power users that use very low to lowest iso in controlled settings. They usually shoot only RAW and they pp their shots (so they can get rid of resolution errors like moiré in an texture). DSLR-Users want a good high iso performance and a very good (but not mindblowing) low iso quality. So you need to pay huge sums to get rid of the AA-Filter (or get a X3 Consumer Sigma SD14 or DP1/2 with below 5MP resolution - but great iq). I just can't imagine what a pentax body without aa-filter and with an 31mm attached would be capable of. Ableit you need good lenses and no kit stuff to work with an aa-filterless camera.

If you don't believe how greatly an aa-filter results in blurred pixel level iq just compare results of this hardware tweak (before and after removal of aa-filter samples) :
http://www.maxmax.com/nikon_d200hr.htm

Thank god the K10D has a weak aa filter and works that good @ iso100

Why is it high end studio cameras like the Hasselblad H3D-50 come aa-filterless?

Abeit not a crop that's what you get without aa-filter and ridicoulus mp (the iq, not the girl )

And this is a Sigma Dp1 100% crop proving how wise it is to design a aa-filterless sensor (foveon shines at pixel level but lacks the megapixel):

And some more DP1-Examples:

Pls Pentax, give us an aa-filterless low iso optimized body.

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Britney Elvis
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Richard, a SR question
In reply to Richard Murdey, Nov 17, 2009

Richard, first off thanks for the very imformative and honest evaluations.

Have you shot the KX without the shake reduction on? Is there any difference at the pixel level on sharpness? SR on vs off?

I really was interested in the Hi ISo capabilities of the Kx but I dont think I would be very happy with the hazy softness/ lack of detail I am seeing in your K10 vs K-x comparisons. I know when I first got the K20 I struggled to get the sharpness of my k100... but after a bit I somehow dialed in what worked for that bigger sensor.

The Kx just looks kind of fuzzy, that is why I was asking about SR. I do remememer some threads where SR actually seem to make things worse if you had the camera stablized well...

The kind of detail I like in my macro shots just does not seem to be there in your copy.
--

Gus --- There are none so blind as those who had no chance to see... stop censoring photos!

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mnovikov
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Re: Cat amongst the pigeons
In reply to Richard Murdey, Nov 17, 2009

Congratulations! And how did you get the color camera? Does Pentax.jp ship them worldwide?

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solarider
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Re: hazy softness. Is it in every K-x camera...
In reply to Richard Murdey, Nov 17, 2009

or only in a few copies? Do you have a dud or there is a glitch somewhere in software pp?

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Britney Elvis
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Re: hazy softness. Is it in every K-x camera...
In reply to solarider, Nov 17, 2009

Not everyone for sure... there are some others posting some really sharp shots... as always we on the sidelines are victims of the variables.

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Gus --- There are none so blind as those who had no chance to see... stop censoring photos!

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Richard Murdey
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Re: Richard, a SR question
In reply to Britney Elvis, Nov 18, 2009

Britney Elvis wrote:

Richard, first off thanks for the very imformative and honest evaluations.

Have you shot the KX without the shake reduction on? Is there any difference at the pixel level on sharpness? SR on vs off?

I really was interested in the Hi ISo capabilities of the Kx but I dont think I would be very happy with the hazy softness/ lack of detail I am seeing in your K10 vs K-x comparisons. I know when I first got the K20 I struggled to get the sharpness of my k100... but after a bit I somehow dialed in what worked for that bigger sensor.

The Kx just looks kind of fuzzy, that is why I was asking about SR. I do remememer some threads where SR actually seem to make things worse if you had the camera stablized well...

The kind of detail I like in my macro shots just does not seem to be there in your copy.

First, I haven't reliably seen any difference with SR on or off, so I usually try to turn it off if I don't need it just in case.

Second, what I'm seeing with the hazyness seems to source from the Pentax JPEG development (in camera or bundled software) at the deafult or near default settings. ACR based conversion is by default much more detailed and the hazyness is gone. Likewise playing around with the K-x image settings seems to also tighten things up quite a bit.

So I think it is early days yet, too early to make a blanket statement abut the ultimate potential of the K-x.

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fskhoo
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Re: hazy softness. Is it in every K-x camera?
In reply to Britney Elvis, Nov 18, 2009

I have seen very sharp photos posted in some forums also. I was kind of shock to discover soft, hazy and fuzzyness pictures Richard posted here with my K-x too. By the way, I have seen this kind of Fuzzy pictures in my friends Sony A300.
--

K10D,14f2.8,Tamron 18-250,35f2.Panasonic LC1,DMC-L1,Nikon FE2/50f1.4,Olympus C5060.

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Richard Murdey
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Re: hazy softness. Is it in every K-x camera?
In reply to fskhoo, Nov 18, 2009

I suggest saving the RAW file and download a trial or beta copy of Lightroom (if you don't have it) just to check for yourself if using this software gives you more detail.

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Nikon D40 Pentax K10D Nikon 1 V1 Nikon D600 Pentax smc FA 31mm F1.8 AL Limited +6 more
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Jerome the Parisian
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Good for you, but I will never buy such a thing
In reply to Richard Murdey, Nov 18, 2009

I try to keep a low profile at all times when I come out with my gear. The DA* lenses are big enough and I don't see them mounted on such a bright body, but....

Good somebody has the guts...

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TheOriginalSinnerman
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Re: Good for you, but I will never buy such a thing
In reply to Jerome the Parisian, Nov 18, 2009

Jerome the Parisian wrote:

I try to keep a low profile at all times when I come out with my gear. The DA* lenses are big enough and I don't see them mounted on such a bright body, but....

Good somebody has the guts...

Actually I think most people will not take the orange "toy looking" camera seriously (no offense to the OP, I love the orange k-x!) unless there's some serious looking glass attached to it.

Black bodies with grips are the main things that scare people, big lens or not.

-- hide signature --

What's all this then?!

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