D80 noise

Started Feb 16, 2009 | Discussions
raincoat
Junior MemberPosts: 29
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D80 noise
Feb 16, 2009

How do I know if my D80 noise is normal or not? I have indoor shots at ISO400 which are quite noisy. Maybe I'm underexposed, so I find some ourdoor brightly lit pics, and still you can see much noise in ISO320 conditions.

This is comparing NEF files with pentax and canon raws my friends use. Their ones have much less noise.

shanet
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Re: D80 noise
In reply to raincoat, Feb 16, 2009

do you have the cameras noise reduction turned on? also have your friends cameras got noise reduction on?

You are also comparing a CCD sensor with a CMOS sensor. CCD do generate slightly more noise, but at IOS400 it should be just about indistinguishable!

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Capivara
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Re: D80 noise
In reply to shanet, Feb 16, 2009

shanet wrote:

You are also comparing a CCD sensor with a CMOS sensor. CCD do
generate slightly more noise, but at IOS400 it should be just about
indistinguishable!
--

It's the other way around: CCD generates less noise.

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Digital pictures are born analog. Hence, analog rules.

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shanet
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Re: D80 noise
In reply to Capivara, Feb 16, 2009

well its arguable which is which, but what you cant deny is that CMOS sensor cameras produce far less noise at higher ISO. By the way i have both, my d80 is noisier.

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Al93151
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Re: D80 noise
In reply to raincoat, Feb 16, 2009

Hi

I have read on here that using the D80, the noise is worse at 400ISO than it is at 640ISO

I do not know how this would be possible but ............... ?

Regards,

Al

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ZorSy
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Re: D80 noise
In reply to raincoat, Feb 16, 2009

if you are not being caught in pixel-peepng obsession, it would not be a bad idea to post a sample with full exif and 100% crop pointing the finger onto the claimed noise. There are several factors which mey "increase" noise - high sharpening for example is a great way to get noisy photos on lower ISO. Second to this, are u talking jpegs or NEFs converted to jpeg where conveter counts as well +jpeg artefacts). Yes, there could be some noise in blue chanel (blue sky) on lower ISO, but only if you peep. Print, and it will be gone for good. Once you post your samples, we can match exif and scene and post what we get from our D80....so you be the judge

cheers

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_Doug_B
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Re: D80 noise
In reply to shanet, Feb 16, 2009

In low light scientific applications CMOS is considered way too noisy. All of the high end miscroscope camera's are CCD based. CMOS is just starting to appear in low end cameras. It does appear that CMOS consumer cameras have less noise at higher iso than CCD consumer cameras and I'm not sure why. Maybe at this price point CMOS has less noise.

shanet wrote:

well its arguable which is which, but what you cant deny is that CMOS
sensor cameras produce far less noise at higher ISO. By the way i
have both, my d80 is noisier.
--

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Parisis
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Re: D80 noise
In reply to _Doug_B, Feb 16, 2009

The key is to stop worrying about it. I guess it's because a lot of people here did not shoot high iso film but digital shooters seem to be noise obsessed.

Also Digital noise is much less noticeable on a good print. With that said exposure can make it worse. Do a search , many people recommend exposure adjustments with the D80.

We now can get shots people 10 years ago only dreamed about. Some cameras are better than others and probably be "noise free" in a few years but who cares.
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http://parisea.blogspot.com/

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binary_eye
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Re: D80 noise
In reply to raincoat, Feb 16, 2009

raincoat wrote:

How do I know if my D80 noise is normal or not? I have indoor shots
at ISO400 which are quite noisy. Maybe I'm underexposed, so I find
some ourdoor brightly lit pics, and still you can see much noise in
ISO320 conditions.

Noise levels depend greatly on exposure. For example, a well-exposed photo shot at ISO 3200 on the D80 will have virtually no noise in the highlights and quarter-tones. The midtones will have obvious noise, and of course the shadows will have a lot of noise.

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bosman01
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Re: D80 noise
In reply to binary_eye, Feb 16, 2009

It's the same sensor as the sony alpha 100.

This sensor is extremely sharp at low iso. Perfect for landscape and well lit situations. At higher iso (starting from 400) this noise becomes visible and from 800 on I would say almost not usable.

In the higher iso range the cmos sensor is doing better, but in the low iso will be less sharp then ccd.

Depending on what you use the camera most for you can change to cmos. I would love better noise control at higher iso, but it simply is not there. But a nice shot outside this ccd sensor is just very good.

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raincoat
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Re: D80 noise
In reply to bosman01, Feb 17, 2009

Remember I'm comparing raw files across cameras, so there is NO sharpening/NR/etc involved.

Highlights are fine, I'm getting greater noise in midtones and horrible shadows. It's expected but I didn't expect the pentax k10d to be so noticably less noisy in shadows. Canon of course always had the low noise crown.

Nikon was supposed to have little luminance noise right? But I'm getting black specks in ppl's faces.

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Flako
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Re: D80 noise
In reply to raincoat, Feb 17, 2009

I have a D80 and D40 and I find my D80's noise level to be fine as long as I don't heavily underexpose the sky or dark gray/brown colors at high ISO.

IMHO the D80 is as good or slightly better than the D40 @ high ISO.

The D80 is by far the most used Nikon @ Flickr.

Check it here:

http://www.flickr.com/cameras/nikon/

Art

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Arrowman
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You'd better not show me a link :)
In reply to Al93151, Feb 17, 2009

Al93151 wrote:

I have read on here that using the D80, the noise is worse at 400ISO
than it is at 640ISO

Please don't post a link to a thread where someone has said that.

I might go over and say nasty things to them

Someone who says that is presumably not comparing "apples with apples" and/or is blissfully unaware that noise can be caused by things other than sensor "quality" and ISO setting.

I do not know how this would be possible but ............... ?

Of course it's not.

Just remember that not everyone on these forums actually knows what they're talking about.

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shrinkie1964
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A voice of reason!
In reply to Parisis, Feb 17, 2009

I really loved my D80 when I had it, and came to accept some noise, even at the lowest ISOs, as totally expected in some cases, especially if the shot needed a little extra sharpening or some level adjustment that would bring out a little graininess in shadows. What seems to be like bad TV reception "snow" at pixel peeping seemed to be irrelevant at printing time, and certainly of little consequence in downsampled websized files.

I have become one of those obnoxious D90 fanatics, and after 3 months and thousands of shutterclicks my enthusiasm hasn't dulled as some predicted it would. There is plenty of visible noise in D90 images, but to my eye the QUALITY is a little less rough than it is in D80 shots, which makes prints and downsampled files look even better, even at the higher ISOs. But what is most noticeable to me about the D90 high ISO performance is better preservation of colour and DR. A slightly noisy shot with good colour and depth looks better than a similarly noisy one with flattening and colour shifting. That, for me, is what really matters in assessing the performance of our cameras across the ISO range. The tone and depth of the overall shot is really more important than the quality and amount of grain at 100% enlargement!

I have moved on to the D90 without regret, but I still have plenty of cherished ISO 1600 D80 shots that look fine to me at image and print sizes suitable for normal human consumption. (With the D90, I get similar results up to ISO 3200.) These folks who declare the D80 "unususable" above ISO 800 must have way higher standards than most of us.

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mats_b
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Re: D80 noise
In reply to raincoat, Feb 17, 2009

The d80 I had was about a stop worse than my Nikon d50 and Canon 40d (which are similar) when comparing RAW (using Lighroom, no NR applied). I was so dissapointed about this that I sold the d80. It is a pity, because I liked allmost everything about it. Better VF, wireless flash etc etc compared to the d50 but I use high ISO a lot, so this was a deal breaker for me.

In the lighter tones of images I saw little difference between these cams at high ISO. However, in the darker tones the difference was substantial. Texture becomes mushy allmost as if there where some kind of NR going on selectively for darker tones with the d80.

Regards Mats

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Kluso
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Here is the link you requested.
In reply to Arrowman, Feb 17, 2009

Arrowman wrote:

Just remember that not everyone on these forums actually knows what
they're talking about.

here is the link you requested

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond90/page20.asp

There you find this

Luminance noise graph (gray patch)

Luminance noise graph (black patch)

Chroma (color) noise graph

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Inspector Kluso

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Arrowman
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I stand corrected
In reply to Kluso, Feb 17, 2009

I assumed (yeah, yeah - never assume) that the poster was referring to someone who had posted their personal opinion based on some backyard tests (as is often the case) - and certainly I found it counter-intuitive that (amp) noise would ever decrease with an increased ISO setting.

I will have a closer look at those graphs, thank you for posting.

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fdevyatkin
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Re: D80 noise
In reply to raincoat, Feb 18, 2009

If you expose properly, you should not be experiencing too much noise. The noise will show in the shadows. This was at ISO 800 with a D80/70-300VR combo.
Fred

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shrinkie1964
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wouldn't expect visible noise at only ISO 800 in image this size nt
In reply to fdevyatkin, Feb 18, 2009
n/t
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shrinkie1964
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that sure is weird!
In reply to Kluso, Feb 18, 2009

In fairness, the downsloping line segment crosses noise level differences that frankly would be inconsequential to the naked eye in normal sized images.

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