Black dot issue -> oval highlights issue

Started Jan 9, 2009 | Discussions
RusErious
New MemberPosts: 8
Like?
Black dot issue -> oval highlights issue
Jan 9, 2009

Hi all !
Don't you think we deserve a little more respect than this "black dot fix" ?
The issue itself may not be serious.
The ridiculous cover up is serious.
Since when filling faulty black pixels with white ones is a fix ?
Check the nice ovals here :

http://www.andrewyip.com/blog/2009/01/07/firmware-update-fixes-5d-mark-ii-black-dots-problem

And how much can many of you take before you admit that Canon screwed up again ? Is the truth so hard to spell out ? Are you making money out of Canon's sales ??? !!!!!

Electrons overflowing into noise reference wells on the sensor cannot be fixed by firmware (get it ? ;-).

The 5DmkII is an inexpensive camera and it's only fair that you get what you pay for (actually in this case not that bad).

And for all the forum police :

  • This is my first post, no need to spend time searching.

  • I have been reading these forums for almost 5 years.

  • I am a Canon user. I have a 20D and a 40D and many EF lenses.

  • I am in this forum 'cause I am going to buy a 5DmkII.

  • I am sick and tired of people hiding behind their fingers (amongst other things).

Rus.

tlinn
Regular MemberPosts: 469Gear list
Like?
It's not a fix; it's a
In reply to RusErious, Jan 9, 2009

I don't believe Canon describes this as a fix.

As one poster in another thread put it, if this firmware change had been made before the camera was introduced no one would have noticed anything. I'm a pretty meticulous person and, for me, the new firmware resolves my concerns.

 tlinn's gear list:tlinn's gear list
Canon PowerShot S95 Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon TS-E 17mm f/4L Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM +9 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
tlinn
Regular MemberPosts: 469Gear list
Like?
Re: It's not a fix; it's a mitigation
In reply to tlinn, Jan 9, 2009

Updated the topic title...apparently words in parentheses get removed from the topic field...

tlinn wrote:

I don't believe Canon describes this as a fix.

As one poster in another thread put it, if this firmware change had
been made before the camera was introduced no one would have noticed
anything. I'm a pretty meticulous person and, for me, the new
firmware resolves my concerns.

 tlinn's gear list:tlinn's gear list
Canon PowerShot S95 Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon TS-E 17mm f/4L Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM +9 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
rrcphoto
Veteran MemberPosts: 6,173
Like?
Re: Black dot issue -> oval highlights issue
In reply to RusErious, Jan 9, 2009

actually I believe that testing that rickastro has done as shown that it's not a white fill - and if it was a white fill I wouldn't expect to see the CA/blooming entirely circle the light source - of which those sample images - I'm not even sure if they are fully circular to begin with.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
David Franklin
Contributing MemberPosts: 958
Like?
Re: Black dot issue -> oval highlights issue
In reply to RusErious, Jan 9, 2009

Uhhhhhh. I looked at the examples in the link you posted. Unless this is a rather odd type of humorous post, I don't get what you're talking about. The examples you referred to seem tp prove the firmware fix has worked very well. What the heck ovals can you possibly be talking about? Please tell me this is an attempt at comedy. If not, consider that you may be making something out of absolutely nothing. If this is comedy, please practice a little more before your next attempt.

Regards
--
Keep learning; share knowledge; think seriously about outcomes; seek wisdom.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Steven Lyons
Regular MemberPosts: 265
Like?
Re: Black dot issue -> oval highlights issue
In reply to RusErious, Jan 9, 2009

Not seeing what you describe in those test shots. Can you point out exactly where you see the "white ovals"? (I see some differences in the light sources from pre to post firmware update, but there is no overall replacement of the black dots with white ones).

I own the camera, love it so far and I have not updated to 1.0.7 since I haven't seen a black dot yet in any of my photos (even of pinpoint light sources).

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
renato
Contributing MemberPosts: 808
Like?
it would be very naive
In reply to RusErious, Jan 9, 2009

to expect a complete fix, since it is likely a hardware problem and to fix it Canon would need to recall all the units.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
madzazulu
Senior MemberPosts: 1,300
Like?
It's a cover up so don't buy one...let other people get theirs...
In reply to RusErious, Jan 9, 2009

RusErious wrote:

Hi all !
Don't you think we deserve a little more respect than this "black dot
fix" ?
The issue itself may not be serious.
The ridiculous cover up is serious.
Since when filling faulty black pixels with white ones is a fix ?
Check the nice ovals here :

http://www.andrewyip.com/blog/2009/01/07/firmware-update-fixes-5d-mark-ii-black-dots-problem

And how much can many of you take before you admit that Canon screwed
up again ? Is the truth so hard to spell out ? Are you making money
out of Canon's sales ??? !!!!!

Electrons overflowing into noise reference wells on the sensor cannot
be fixed by firmware (get it ? ;-).

The 5DmkII is an inexpensive camera and it's only fair that you get
what you pay for (actually in this case not that bad).

And for all the forum police :

  • This is my first post, no need to spend time searching.

  • I have been reading these forums for almost 5 years.

  • I am a Canon user. I have a 20D and a 40D and many EF lenses.

  • I am in this forum 'cause I am going to buy a 5DmkII.

  • I am sick and tired of people hiding behind their fingers (amongst

other things).

Rus.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Karma Traveler
Regular MemberPosts: 494
Like?
Fear Mongering
In reply to RusErious, Jan 9, 2009

RusErious wrote:

The issue itself may not be serious.
The ridiculous cover up is serious.

The Andrew Yip samples are inconclusive. Take a look at this control shots with the older v1.06 firmware. Even without black dots on the old firmware, the lights are already deformed. Asymmetrical, and pointed towards the right side. I'm guessing that's just the way the lights are rendered for that particular scene.

You can't possibly conclude with any certainty that the oval highlights are a direct result of v1.07 when it was already exhibited in v1.06. I'm not saying Canon didn't just patch black dots with white dots. I'm saying it's ridiculous for people like you to jump to unsubstantiated conclusions.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
RusErious
New MemberPosts: 8
Like?
Re: Black dot issue -> oval highlights issue
In reply to Steven Lyons, Jan 9, 2009

Notice that on 1.0.6 all lights are more or less circular, with or without black dots. With 1.07, at the potential black dot's space some lights have white elongations instead. These are the new, improved black dots. Got promoted to white !

If your sensor does not exhibit the issue, you are lucky; no need to worry.

Rus

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
ozcreations
Forum MemberPosts: 60
Like?
Overlaid in PS, It looks fixed to me... VERY Obvious fix.
In reply to RusErious, Jan 9, 2009

I have taken both shots and overlaid in PS, by increasing and decresing the top layer gradually you can actually see the black area is NOT turning into white, but rather a combination of the background color and chroma (which is generally missing in origional), therefore I deduce it's fixed.

If VERY obvious that it's been replaced with Background in PS.

Maybe I should make a video to prove it

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
JFScheck
Regular MemberPosts: 216Gear list
Like?
Re: Black dot issue -> oval highlights issue
In reply to Steven Lyons, Jan 9, 2009

Being serious - is this supposed to be a bad joke or this one post individual sincere in what he is saying?

"Pixel Peeping" on this fix - I am more than satisfied...

-- hide signature --

John 'JFScheck' Scheck
'Enjoy life. There's plenty of time to be dead.'

 JFScheck's gear list:JFScheck's gear list
Sony RX100 II Canon EOS 5D Mark III Sony Alpha 7 II Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM +4 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
A-Frame
Regular MemberPosts: 235Gear list
Like?
Re: Black dot issue -> oval highlights issue
In reply to RusErious, Jan 9, 2009

I see what you mean. But we need to see more tests before concluding that this is an issue.

RusErious wrote:

Notice that on 1.0.6 all lights are more or less circular, with or
without black dots. With 1.07, at the potential black dot's space
some lights have white elongations instead. These are the new,
improved black dots. Got promoted to white !

If your sensor does not exhibit the issue, you are lucky; no need to
worry.

Rus
--

 A-Frame's gear list:A-Frame's gear list
Nikon 1 V1 Nikon D810
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
RicksAstro
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,471Gear list
Like?
Well.....
In reply to RusErious, Jan 9, 2009

You are being a little over dramatic...they've taken an extremely minor issue and made it basically a non-issue.

I have confirmed that what Canon said is true...it is a mitigation, but it's much smarter than just replacing black with white.

Here's the worst example I could make to show the fix. It's a 200% DPP converted raw file stretched carefully to preserve the whole range of the image. It shows clearly that it's more or less a patch, but IMO it's a darned good one.

No way on earth anyone would have noticed or complained about it had this been in the original firmware. For all we know, it may be in all other camera's firmware as well.

-- hide signature --
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
M_Edge
Senior MemberPosts: 1,717
Like?
Call for lawyesr!
In reply to RusErious, Jan 9, 2009

I have a new 5D2.

After quite a bit of trying, I finally managed to take an outdoor picture of Christmas lights and, after a major enlargement, kinda-sorta see maybe some black dots.
I downloaded and installed the firmware fix.

The above criticisms have disturbed me so much that I can hardly wait for next Christmas, so I can (if I remember) test for black, or possibly elongated white, dots.

Until then, I all ready to join the pending class-action lawsuit and collect millions of dollars for pain and suffering.

-- hide signature --

BJCP National

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
greenlander
Regular MemberPosts: 256
Like?
Re: Well.....
In reply to RicksAstro, Jan 9, 2009

Hmm.. Some of these looks more suspicious of a mask vs. fix. Compared to investigations using Andrew Yip's test which seemed, to me, to point more towards a fix.

Definitely would be nice for Canon to release info on the cause of the problem and what exactly their "fix" does.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
RusErious
New MemberPosts: 8
Like?
Re: Well.....
In reply to RicksAstro, Jan 9, 2009

Agree Rick.
As I said it's good value for money and NOT that big of an issue.
I'm getting the camera and not worrying about it.

But if you add it up to other things like "AF was good, nobody complained so we did not improve it", and "game changing camera" and then you have NO control to change your game and so on and so on, then you (I) get to wonder if they think we are so naive...

Rus

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Gil-W
Contributing MemberPosts: 915
Like?
Re: Well.....
In reply to RicksAstro, Jan 9, 2009

Very well done by you and Canon. Yes, it's there (fill) in your stretched image but would probably never have been noticed. It sure does not display like the black dots.

It is possible this is more of a hardware issue and we may never see a complete fix, just the patch.
--
Gil

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
davejp
Regular MemberPosts: 339
Like?
If this fix is not good enough for you
In reply to RusErious, Jan 9, 2009

then you need to find a new interest. After the new firmware, there is probably less than a one in 100 million chance that the black dot or any related issue could impact your final image output in any way shape or form.

What is your point? How are you harmed?

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
bronxbombers
Forum ProPosts: 18,226
Like?
Re: Black dot issue -> oval highlights issue
In reply to RusErious, Jan 9, 2009

And for all the forum police :

  • This is my first post, no need to spend time searching.

first on this topic under this username today
we are not fools

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads