S5 and Silkypix

Started Nov 3, 2008 | Discussions
Sergio Rui Silva
Regular MemberPosts: 211
Like?
S5 and Silkypix
Nov 3, 2008

Hi!

I have been trying some sample RAF files with Silkypix to see if I should take advantage of the S5 new price. The output seems very good. Does any of you use Silkypix? Do you prefer the output of Lightroom?

Regards,

Sergio

amc123
Junior MemberPosts: 44
Like?
Re: S5 and Silkypix
In reply to Sergio Rui Silva, Nov 3, 2008

Hi Sergio

Ok have been down this road Segio. Aparently nothing will give as good a result as Fuji's own Fujifilm Hyper Utility HS-V3 for processing RAF files. I started off shooting jpeg with my S5 and was staggered at how good they were so thought I can't wait to see what the converted RAF's will look like if the jpegs are so gorgeous. Shot some RAW photos and was staggered at how bad they were compared to the jpegs. To cut a long story short I tried CS3, lightroom 1 and Capture One but they all turn out rubbish compared to the jpegs especially the colour. The Fujifilm Hyper Utility HS-V3 is aparently so slow and not user friendly compared to other software so I carried on shooting jpegs. It is THE camera for jpegs. I have heard that the new edition of Photoshop and Lightroom 2 do handle RAF files much better but it will have to be MUCH better to equal the jpeg output without using Fujifilm Hyper Utility HS-V3. Personally I can't see the jpegs being bettered.

Regards, amc123

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
OldMaster
Senior MemberPosts: 1,813
Like?
Re: S5 and Silkypix
In reply to amc123, Nov 4, 2008

I have used it..well, all of them actually. I can recommend SilkyPix and it particularly likes landscapes..retaining blue is it strong point..but I am not sure it is actually accurate.

Highlight recovery seems very good and it has some nice features.

Is it as good as the Fuji processor..which comes free with the camera..(it's not HU3 but has the same processing engine)...probably not!!

Which is why I have settled on ACR for HL recovery and work flow and HU for specific portraiture and portfolio work.

The Fuji processor does skin tone/noise like no other and is superbly smooth..and can be as sharp and detailed as the best...

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Pkphoto
Contributing MemberPosts: 528
Like?
Re: S5 and Silkypix
In reply to OldMaster, Nov 4, 2008
-- hide signature --

I tried a lot of them...
for quality the best is Huper Utility in RAW files.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
OldMaster
Senior MemberPosts: 1,813
Like?
Re: S5 and Silkypix
In reply to amc123, Nov 4, 2008

To AMC..are we shooting the same cameras!!

I have S3 and S5 and have tried all the RAW processors, which do of course vary..but all of them are clearly , and as expected, a big improvement on Jpeg output!!

I work professionally and for my own weddings, etc would only work RAW..quicker WB, better noise, sharper..you mention it..far more flexible with smoother sharper images...

I shoot Jpeg for my school companies and graduations, and OK if you grey balance and meter the Jpeg output can be adequate but to say a 3-6mb 8 bit file sharpened in camera compares with 69mb 16bit RAW conversion beggars belief!!!

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Sergio Rui Silva
Regular MemberPosts: 211
Like?
Re: S5 and Silkypix
In reply to Sergio Rui Silva, Nov 4, 2008

Thanks for all the answers so far.

As I understand, the Fuji software is not for free. Correct? Can anyone illustrate the output differences?... I mean post some nice pictures!

Regards,

Sergio

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Sergio Rui Silva
Regular MemberPosts: 211
Like?
Capture One
In reply to Sergio Rui Silva, Nov 4, 2008

Capture seems to do a good job too. Looks very sharp per pixel, although only 3000x2000. Colors seem a bit dull... Have to test further.

Regards,

Sergio

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Sergio Rui Silva
Regular MemberPosts: 211
Like?
Re: Capture One
In reply to Sergio Rui Silva, Nov 4, 2008

I mean the new one, 4.5.1.

But the colors still don't pop...

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
amc123
Junior MemberPosts: 44
Like?
Re: S5 and Silkypix
In reply to OldMaster, Nov 4, 2008

Sorry oldmaster but Sergio has just tried Capture One and seems to agree with my own findings. There's no problem with sharpening etc but you just lose the MAGIC of that Fuji look when you go through third party software. I think we can all agree that the S5 Pro is THE jpeg camera and thats why Fuji have spent a lot of time making sure jpeg output is stunning. I really think you are over rating RAW results anyway for the extra workload involved. Obviously Fuji have made it very very difficult for third parties to process their RAF files. Thats why you don't get it for free included because they realise you'll soon find out you do to get the Fuji look. You don't really think I'm the first person to notice this. There are many who have found the problem. Personally I'm surprised you have'nt noticed this unless you've never used jpeg's on your S5. It's widely known that third party Raw converters have trouble with Fuji RAF files. Thats why the latest Lightroom 2 version claimed better RAF convertion and also Latest Photoshop. It's obviously done deliberately by Fuji. I'm not say the RAF file converted through Fuji Hyper Utiliy is bad but I'm saying theresults through third party software is

http://www.flickr.com/groups/fujis5/discuss/72157603782956209/

This page will explain everything to you concerning this problem. Basically Fuji won't pass on vital information about the problems Photoshop, Lightroom, Capture One, Bibble and all the others have converting RAF files so if your not using Fujifilm HS-V3 to convert your RAF's you'll be better off shooting jpeg with the S5 and the reason poeple don't use Fujifilm HS-V3 is because its so slow and awkward but will give the best results.

http://www.bythom.com/raw.htm

http://www.flickr.com/groups/fujis5/discuss/72157606681685131/

http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/digikam-users/2007-November/004356.html

http://www.prophotohome.com/forum/raw-photo-processing-software-technique/74442-s5-lightroom-vs-fuji-s-huv3.html

https://forum.adobe.com/webx?14@@.3bc94a3b.3bb6a869.3bc39bd2/0

http://www.1stcameras.com/pd_fuji_s5_pro.cfm

https://forum.adobe.com/webx?14@@.3bbd164e.3bc349ad/14

http://www.nikonians.org/forums/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=156&topic_id=2263&mesg_id=2263&page=4

http://photocamel.com/forum/fuji-forum/27398-dpreview-posts-fuji-s5-pro-review.html

http://photo.net/digital-camera-shopping-forum/00NHtq

Hope this has been of some help

Regards, amc123

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Sergio Rui Silva
Regular MemberPosts: 211
Like?
Re: S5 and Silkypix
In reply to amc123, Nov 5, 2008

Is it possible to download a trial version of the Hyper Utility?...

Regards,

Sergio

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
OldMaster
Senior MemberPosts: 1,813
Like?
Re: S5 and Silkypix
In reply to Sergio Rui Silva, Nov 5, 2008

If you got the FinePix disc with your camera you have the "HU3" RAF processing engine!!

HU3 is not free, but if you just want to process RAF files the Finepix studio does the same job.....like I said in my previous thread...open the images in FinePix and go to "improve image"..the RAW processor will open...

Personally I would avoid the processors that do not recognise the 12mp output from RAW and this includes Capture 1 and DxO...I have had them both and up scaling their 6mp output files to 12mp does not give you the same quality as ACR or HU3 outputting 12mp direct from their processors.

To save arguments..try it yourself, I believe there are trial periods on both...!!

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Sergio Rui Silva
Regular MemberPosts: 211
Like?
Re: S5 and Silkypix
In reply to OldMaster, Nov 5, 2008

I don't have access to that CD because I don't have the camera... I'm deciding if I should take advantage of the current low prices to buy one.

But first I want to check some samples in a workflow I like and can use. But I'm finding difficult to setup a workflow that can get that extra pop out of the camera....

The workflow should process the RAW files (no problem with Hyper Utility + Photoshop, but if other options exist...), take full advantage of the Fuji Sensor (DR+ colors + resolution + noise), correct simple things like red eyes and tilt, correct chromatic aberration and purple fringing.

Regards,

Sergio

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
amc123
Junior MemberPosts: 44
Like?
Re: S5 and Silkypix
In reply to OldMaster, Nov 6, 2008

A clip from http://www.gdargaud.net

Now onto a different subject, it's been said that the S5 produces HDR images, but this is not quite true. Althought the sensor has a high dynamic range, the image files it produces are classic. An HDR file should contain luminance information as expressed in intensity values and represented by open scale floating point number (12.6 is twice as bright as 6.3 and so on). Such images are usually produced by software, either in ray-tracing or by combining shots taken at various exposures, and as such cannot be displayed properly on current monitor or print technology (where 0 is black and 255 is white and those values are boundaries which don't exist in the real world). The S5 does indeed take the equivalent of two differently exposed shots at once thanks to its advanced sensor, but the data is combined internally to produce a standard JPG file,

-- hide signature --

or a RAW file that can only be processed properly by Fuji software into a standard JPG or TIF file.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So although the theoretical answer is yes, the practical one is no. But maybe a firmware upgrade or an update to FinePix Studio or Hyper Utility will one day allow direct HDR conversion, who knows. Or more likely there'll be a new version of Photomatix or another tone mapping program that can combine both sensor readings into a single HDR file; as for doing tone mapping from those two sets of sensors, forget it for now as there's no way to extract them separately that I know of. Please let me know if you know a way.

http://www.gdargaud.net/Photo/FujiS5pro.html#TestImages

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Giovanni_1968
Senior MemberPosts: 1,288Gear list
Like?
Re: S5 and Silkypix
In reply to amc123, Dec 24, 2008

So, at the end, does LR2 get infos from all the big and small photosites on the S5 or is it mandatory to have the Fuji HU3 software to get the best out of the RAF files?

thanks and Merry Christmas to you all (even to the non Fuji owners ;-))
--
Giovanni
http://www.flickr.com/photos/giovanniaprea/
htto: www.caprileisure.com/a/

 Giovanni_1968's gear list:Giovanni_1968's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix S5 Pro Panasonic Lumix DMC-L1 Fujifilm X-Pro1 Nikon D800 Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D +8 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
LeeK0
Forum MemberPosts: 93
Like?
Re: S5 and Silkypix
In reply to Giovanni_1968, Dec 24, 2008

Lightroom does use both both the s and r sensors. I think it actually recovers the highlights better than Fuji's software, however, the Fuji software will produce a better image with better color. Everyones opinions are different of course but if you want the best looking image you do need to use Fuji's software. In rare cases where you significantly overexpose an image then Lightroom will recover it better.

My personal recommended workflow if you want to take the time is to set the camera to 400%DR and everything else to one step above the lowest level. I then batch process all of them through Fuji's software as 16bit tiffs. These become my digital negatives and I use lightroom to work on them. It doesnt take that much longer if the exposure is close enough to not adjust with Fuji's software.

One final point. It seems that most people dont realize that Fuji provides a simplified FREE version of their raw processing engine on the CD that comes with the camera. As long as you are not wanting the film simulations it will produce exactly the same results. I personally prefer the standard film simulation. You dont need to buy HU3 to process raw files!

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
OldMaster
Senior MemberPosts: 1,813
Like?
Re: Capture One
In reply to Sergio Rui Silva, Dec 24, 2008

Correct..it does not process like the Fuji programme at all. It was never designed for the Fuji sensor and that is clear from it's output....

You can "scale" to 12mp output but it is soft and does not have anything like the resolution of HU, ACR, SilkyPix, S7RAW, etc...

Bit like DxO in that respect...

They both claim to use "all the pixel's information" but it becomes clear that some are not able to come close to the algorithms used by Fuji...

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Sergio Rui Silva
Regular MemberPosts: 211
Like?
Re: Capture One
In reply to OldMaster, Dec 24, 2008

Have you tried Raw Therapee?

Happy Holidays!

Sergio

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
OldMaster
Senior MemberPosts: 1,813
Like?
Re: Capture One
In reply to Sergio Rui Silva, Dec 24, 2008

No, but I think it only works with MAC? Supposed to be very good though.

I really have played with most of them though. No doubt Hyper Utility is amongst the very best, certainly when it comes to handling noise and skin tone...also top at resolution and detail.

ACR is so much quicker though..and it has "Fill Light" amongst other things.

If you have not yet tried it with the Camera profile downloads you should...superbly neutral now with the S5...just switch between them and see the difference!!!

Must admit I mostly use ACR now..with the new profiles!

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Sergio Rui Silva
Regular MemberPosts: 211
Like?
Re: Capture One
In reply to OldMaster, Dec 26, 2008

OldMaster wrote:

No, but I think it only works with MAC? Supposed to be very good though.

No, it is works on Windows also. I have been running some test with it. With Canon it is almost as good as DPP, with Fuji it seems very good it is hard to make a more elaborated comparison since I don't have access to Hyper Utility. It uses very fancy demosaicing algorithms but the output with Fuji files has some artifacts...

It is worth the try though since it is free and all...

Regards,

Sergio

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads