Stop the silly fps crazyness!

Started Jan 24, 2008 | Discussions
Hoffel
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Stop the silly fps crazyness!
Jan 24, 2008

So now we have the K20D. Bomb or not, here it is. Some would have wished for this and some would have wished for that.

One thing, however, that seems to pop up in most every thread is that people keep complaining about the slow burst rate of "only" three frames per second. Looking at the pictures that are typically in this forum and on linked websites, I do not at all understand, why this should be such a big deal: NONE of these photographs would have benefitted from a faster frame rate. Better ISO performance? Some. Better AF? Also some. But higher fps? None.

So why the silly fps crazyness? Because it looks good on paper? Honestly, why do those that "need" ten fps not just buy a camera from another maker? Pentax is well regarded for their prime lenses. Are you shooting sports with the 21mm pancake? Your toddler with the 70mm Ltd.? Or do you need the 10 fps for landscapes or portraits?

Sure, everyone wants "better". But does it really make sense?

I for one chose the K10D because I needed a capable body that's not too large and heavy, but above all because of the lenses. Would I have needed fast long glass or ten fps I would have gone down another route, maker-wise.

The K20D therefore got me somewhat excited because of very different things like the quiet shutter, maybe live view (not really sure about that one), IQ and ISO performance, ability to fine-tune AF for each lens, ability to shoot RAW+b&w jpeg (so that I can see roughly how the image will look in b&w but still have the full colour information available) et cetera. For the cost of development (and thus price), those are things I find much more important than a faster burst rate.

So, why the fps crazyness? If you need more, buy Canon or Nikon! And don't tell me that it would be too expensive to switch! With all those proud "LBA" posts here in the forum, money doesn't really seem to be an issue. And with the ridiculous prices for used pentax glass...

Stop the fps sillyness!

Regards,
Hoffel.

the hotel
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Re: Stop the silly fps crazyness!
In reply to Hoffel, Jan 24, 2008

Hoffel wrote:

So now we have the K20D. Bomb or not, here it is. Some would have
wished for this and some would have wished for that.

One thing, however, that seems to pop up in most every thread is that
people keep complaining about the slow burst rate of "only" three
frames per second. Looking at the pictures that are typically in this
forum and on linked websites, I do not at all understand, why this
should be such a big deal: NONE of these photographs would have
benefitted from a faster frame rate. Better ISO performance? Some.
Better AF? Also some. But higher fps? None.

So why the silly fps crazyness? Because it looks good on paper?
Honestly, why do those that "need" ten fps not just buy a camera from
another maker? Pentax is well regarded for their prime lenses. Are
you shooting sports with the 21mm pancake? Your toddler with the 70mm
Ltd.? Or do you need the 10 fps for landscapes or portraits?

Sure, everyone wants "better". But does it really make sense?

I for one chose the K10D because I needed a capable body that's not
too large and heavy, but above all because of the lenses. Would I
have needed fast long glass or ten fps I would have gone down another
route, maker-wise.

The K20D therefore got me somewhat excited because of very different
things like the quiet shutter, maybe live view (not really sure about
that one), IQ and ISO performance, ability to fine-tune AF for each
lens, ability to shoot RAW+b&w jpeg (so that I can see roughly how
the image will look in b&w but still have the full colour information
available) et cetera. For the cost of development (and thus price),
those are things I find much more important than a faster burst rate.

So, why the fps crazyness? If you need more, buy Canon or Nikon! And
don't tell me that it would be too expensive to switch! With all
those proud "LBA" posts here in the forum, money doesn't really seem
to be an issue. And with the ridiculous prices for used pentax
glass...

Stop the fps sillyness!

Regards,
Hoffel.

Sorry I respectfully disagree. The faster FPS I find very useful for giving me choices of which photo of BIF's to keep. The birds wings give out different shadows as they are moving and allow more or less light on their wings. Being able to choose from 3 photos is not the same as choosing from 9 or 10.

The same thing goes for a Deer Jumping over a down tree or a fence.

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jebidiam
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Amen brother!
In reply to Hoffel, Jan 24, 2008

Glad I'm not the only one that feels this way.

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Rupert60
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Coon hunter special?
In reply to Hoffel, Jan 24, 2008

It may not be important to everyone, certainly not to me, but the point is that it was easily possible to do and Pentax didn't do it. They missed an opportunity to Star and chose only to show. It is not like they weren't able to lurk here over the past few years and learn what their users wanted, they just chose to ignore it. Better AF would be on my priority list....when I used a friend's ancient N 200D recently, and saw how fast it locked on to a subject, I was embarassed to let him try my 10D. I felt like I was handing him a leash with a coon-hunting dog on the end of it.
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Alfisti
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I don't get it
In reply to Hoffel, Jan 24, 2008

this obsession with FPS that is.

There are much more important features from improved AF, better use of buttons, losing some beef etc etc etc ... why the FPS obsession?

Apart from anything else we don;t have the AF to use 5 fps.

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FranckB
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Amen brother, me too !
In reply to Hoffel, Jan 24, 2008

You speak my thoughts, exactly. This fps over-concern is a bit of a technological hysteria, IMO... but, for sure, I do not shoot sports ! Why trying to take pictures of idiots full of steroids and other drugs, anyway, when there are so many beautiful things around us in the Natural World
All the best,
Franck

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Troy Carter
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Re: Stop the silly fps crazyness!
In reply to Hoffel, Jan 24, 2008

WOW, the first think I looked at was FPS for the K20d hoping that I would see 5+ so that I could justify getting one. To each his own but that's a deal breaker for me.

To clarify, I am currently a Canon shooter but I'd really like a Pentax and a couple pancake lenses for a travel kit but I cannot justify a new camera and lenses just for traveling when I already have several others from a different mark.

Good rant though, it's nice to see how little some care about certain things.
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R Scott Webb
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Re: Stop the silly fps crazyness!
In reply to Hoffel, Jan 24, 2008

I have to respectfully disagree, as well. During the summer and fall months I'm out shooting baseball/soccer/football every weekend (sometimes every day, even)for elementary/middle school/high school kids and the higher FPS count (and faster, more accurate AF) would increase the number of "keepers" I get to sell to the moms and dads after their kid hit a homer/scored a goal or touchdown et. al. However, for the more artistic endeavours, I don't really see a need for 5-6 FPS.
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Voff
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Re: I don't get it
In reply to Alfisti, Jan 24, 2008

Alfisti wrote:

this obsession with FPS that is.

There are much more important features from improved AF, better use
of buttons, losing some beef etc etc etc ... why the FPS obsession?

I don't the AF obsession. I haven't met a single animal that is faster than Pentax AF.

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the hotel
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Re: Amen brother, me too !
In reply to FranckB, Jan 24, 2008

FranckB wrote:

You speak my thoughts, exactly. This fps over-concern is a bit of a
technological hysteria, IMO... but, for sure, I do not shoot sports !
Why trying to take pictures of idiots full of steroids and other
drugs, anyway, when there are so many beautiful things around us in
the Natural World
All the best,
Franck

"beautiful things around us in the Natural World" How about a eagle flying by or a Elk or Deer running or jumping ???? IMHO the FPS are important for them.

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Hoffel
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Re: Coon hunter special?
In reply to Rupert60, Jan 24, 2008

Rupert60 wrote:

[...]but the
point is that it was easily possible to do [...]

Honestly? If only Pentax knew! Seriously, do you think really this is just something that you can implement? You need a faster readout from the imaging chip/pipeline, faster AF, faster writing to the SD card. First of all this would have had to be engineered and then it would have had to be built. Both would have added significantly to the development/production cost, especially considering that the new imager is a first for Pentax. Sure it could have been done. But then the camera would have to be much more expensive. Canon and Nikon have MUCH larger resources at their hands. If you like their cameras better, why did you chose Pentax in the first place? They have never been known to make the fastest cameras on the planet.

[...] Better AF
would be on my priority list....

Yes, mine too.

when I used a friend's ancient N 200D
recently, and saw how fast it locked on to a subject, I was
embarassed to let him try my 10D. I felt like I was handing him a
leash with a coon-hunting dog on the end of it.

Buy a Nikon, then. By the by, the D200 is hardy "ancient"...

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Tord
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Re: Stop the silly fps crazyness!
In reply to Hoffel, Jan 24, 2008

Agree!

Too bad that Pentax don't make cameras that fit your needs, luckily other manufacturers does.

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FranckB
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You're right, of course
In reply to the hotel, Jan 24, 2008

Yes I know... problem is, I do not live in a place where such beauties are "available" (in Paris, France, you do not see many eagles, alas), and I am personnally more interested in the tiny living beings, which you can (still...) find in almost any forest or patch of grass... but your point of view is perfectly valid, of course!
All the best,
Franck
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jeffb89061
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Re: Stop the silly fps crazyness!
In reply to Hoffel, Jan 24, 2008

Thank you. If fps was my criteria, I'd buy a professional video camera.

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insulglass
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Re: I don't get it
In reply to Voff, Jan 24, 2008

Voff wrote:

I don't the AF obsession. I haven't met a single animal that is
faster than Pentax AF.

Maybe not. But I sure have seen a lot of football, basketball, and soccer players that were faster.

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insulglass
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Re: Stop the silly fps crazyness!
In reply to Hoffel, Jan 24, 2008

Hoffel wrote:

So, why the fps crazyness? If you need more, buy Canon or Nikon! And
don't tell me that it would be too expensive to switch! With all
those proud "LBA" posts here in the forum, money doesn't really seem
to be an issue. And with the ridiculous prices for used pentax
glass...

Stop the fps sillyness!

Regards,
Hoffel.

This is at best, ignorant. A large group of Pentax shooters desire a faster fps. We see this feature on competing cameras. Voicing displeasure for Pentax failing to address this feature is neither unreasonable, silly, or crazy - it is a legitimate concern.

And yes, it WOULD be expensive to switch. I have thousands of dollars invested in my total system and have no desire to switch to another brand if at all I can avoid it. I guess I'll hold on for another few months and hope Pentax makes another announcement before the fall sports season kicks in.

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jeffster_ca
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Re: Stop the moaning about those wanting more fps!
In reply to Tord, Jan 24, 2008

Man, you guys complaining about those that want more FPS are as bad as the other whiner threads here.

More FPS = more keepers in certain situations. Better AF is more important then FPS, however Pentax is weak on both counts. Your denial of such a problem only shows that your shooting style is different than those shooting Bif and other fast animals like ferrets.

Please, feel free to whine on!

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AZSmitty
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Re: Stop the silly fps crazyness!
In reply to jeffb89061, Jan 24, 2008

Yesterday I was out with a Falconer with a Harris Hawk and was trying to get some pictures of the hawk coming in to his hand. I was fairly close and the bird comes in rapidly and flairs to land. I could not get a good in focus shot using af c. I might be able to use faster fps if I could get a faster focus, but I will just have to try different methods and practice, practice practice
AZSmitty

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colesf
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Re: Stop the moaning about those wanting more fps!
In reply to jeffster_ca, Jan 24, 2008

I think the original poster meant that there is an obsession for fps among people who don't really need it. However, the marketers have given us many other things to obsess about, so if we miss that trap we fall into another. I see people obsessing (because they've been conditioned to obsess by the camera marketers, the magazines, and other internet obsessives) about:
dynamic range
waterproofing
megapixel count
noise
camera build
shutter noise

While these issues are genuinely important for a minority, the rest have become trapped into a consumerist/perpetual dissatisfaction frenzy the likes of which I've never before seen.

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peted1
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Re: Stop the silly fps crazyness!
In reply to Hoffel, Jan 24, 2008

Hoffel wrote:

So now we have the K20D. Bomb or not, here it is. Some would have
wished for this and some would have wished for that.

One thing, however, that seems to pop up in most every thread is that
people keep complaining about the slow burst rate of "only" three
frames per second. Looking at the pictures that are typically in this
forum and on linked websites, I do not at all understand, why this
should be such a big deal: NONE of these photographs would have
benefitted from a faster frame rate. Better ISO performance? Some.
Better AF? Also some. But higher fps? None.

So why the silly fps crazyness? Because it looks good on paper?
Honestly, why do those that "need" ten fps not just buy a camera from
another maker? Pentax is well regarded for their prime lenses. Are
you shooting sports with the 21mm pancake? Your toddler with the 70mm
Ltd.? Or do you need the 10 fps for landscapes or portraits?

Sure, everyone wants "better". But does it really make sense?

I for one chose the K10D because I needed a capable body that's not
too large and heavy, but above all because of the lenses. Would I
have needed fast long glass or ten fps I would have gone down another
route, maker-wise.

The K20D therefore got me somewhat excited because of very different
things like the quiet shutter, maybe live view (not really sure about
that one), IQ and ISO performance, ability to fine-tune AF for each
lens, ability to shoot RAW+b&w jpeg (so that I can see roughly how
the image will look in b&w but still have the full colour information
available) et cetera. For the cost of development (and thus price),
those are things I find much more important than a faster burst rate.

So, why the fps crazyness? If you need more, buy Canon or Nikon! And
don't tell me that it would be too expensive to switch! With all
those proud "LBA" posts here in the forum, money doesn't really seem
to be an issue. And with the ridiculous prices for used pentax
glass...

Stop the fps sillyness!

Regards,
Hoffel.

Your missing the point if pentax are going to town to try and make this the best camera around why skimp on certain areas such as the AF and FPS. It appears to have upgraded the sensor, ISO levels and and a few other areas so why not the frame rate and AF. All other brands do this and lets face it the AF is in need of upgrading in my opinion. FPS perhaps not so important but why produce a stunning new camera like the K20 and not do this. I for one could benefit from a faster AF system and more FPS. If pentax at least upgraded the AF and put in a 6fps or higher it would have been a world beater for sure.

I dont understand surley they saw this coming ?

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