H9 im a sad panda

Started May 1, 2007 | Discussions
cgarrard
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H9 im a sad panda
May 1, 2007

Just realized that the H9 doesn't support raw or tiff. I'm behind in the count I know so I apologize in advance for creating this thread if the following has been discussed previously.

I was set to buy it, ready. Then one more glance at the features and I realized that it only has .jpeg compression. What a total bummer! I honestly think that was a bad move on Sony's part if they were trying not to tap into DSLR sales by doing that on purpose. I normally dont' complain at all about Sony, but that is just wrong, im sorry. Forcing people to buy into a DSLR system if people want to shoot raw, is just wrong. The DSLR system sells itself for people wanting to advance further (in some cases), and i've seen no data to suggest that it would impede DSLR sales if that indeed was Sony's reasoning. I can't think of another, can anyone else? It really can't be a cost issue, can it? Nor an engineering issue. The 828, and R1 both have Raw format.. so?

Sorry if im popping balloons with this thread, I think many here know that I am an avid Sony user/fan (I have only sony cameras, and 5 total) and this is the first time they have totally let me down. I wanted this camera for a lightweight bringalong for trail running and mountainbiking so I dont have to lug my ALpha and lenses with me, and now im not going to buy it.

The H9 has so much going for it, so much in one small package. But that strategic move, really leaves a bad taste in my mouth again, if that was the reason.

Tsk tsk Sony.

Carl
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totemjoe
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Ask not what your photo equipment can do for you,
In reply to cgarrard, May 1, 2007

but what you can do with your photo equipment'
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Mahon
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Re: H9 im a sad panda
In reply to cgarrard, May 1, 2007

Can Sony add: Raw or Tiff options, with a firmware upgrade, or is that impossible??

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cspringer
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Re: H9 im a sad panda
In reply to cgarrard, May 1, 2007

I was recently reading some good things about this panasonic. I'm still happy with my f717 but this one looks interesting.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz50/page20.asp

cgarrard wrote:

Just realized that the H9 doesn't support raw or tiff. I'm behind
in the count I know so I apologize in advance for creating this
thread if the following has been discussed previously.

I was set to buy it, ready. Then one more glance at the features
and I realized that it only has .jpeg compression. What a total
bummer! I honestly think that was a bad move on Sony's part if they
were trying not to tap into DSLR sales by doing that on purpose. I
normally dont' complain at all about Sony, but that is just wrong,
im sorry. Forcing people to buy into a DSLR system if people want
to shoot raw, is just wrong. The DSLR system sells itself for
people wanting to advance further (in some cases), and i've seen no
data to suggest that it would impede DSLR sales if that indeed was
Sony's reasoning. I can't think of another, can anyone else? It
really can't be a cost issue, can it? Nor an engineering issue. The
828, and R1 both have Raw format.. so?

Sorry if im popping balloons with this thread, I think many here
know that I am an avid Sony user/fan (I have only sony cameras, and
5 total) and this is the first time they have totally let me down.
I wanted this camera for a lightweight bringalong for trail running
and mountainbiking so I dont have to lug my ALpha and lenses with
me, and now im not going to buy it.

The H9 has so much going for it, so much in one small package. But
that strategic move, really leaves a bad taste in my mouth again,
if that was the reason.

Tsk tsk Sony.

Carl
--
'Ask not what your photo equipment can do for you, but what you can
do with your photo equipment'

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R2D2
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Agree.
In reply to cgarrard, May 1, 2007

After seeing the initial postings regarding Noise Reduction in the H9, my first thought was "Boy, if they had only included a RAW option."

That would have been the cure indeed. At least in my case.
R2

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barshnik
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Re: H9 im a sad panda
In reply to Mahon, May 1, 2007

They probably could, but most certainly won't. In a strange sort of way, I'm kind of liking its absence - now I don't have to use completely different methods of import, processing, etc. I bought it as a great vacation camera, and that it is.

It still prints beautifully up to Super A3 on well exposed photos, so I'm happy.

jf

Mahon wrote:

Can Sony add: Raw or Tiff options, with a firmware upgrade, or is
that impossible??

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Dice K
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Re: Agree.
In reply to R2D2, May 1, 2007

well if you want RAW and a hotshoe for that matter, buy the Sony V3. I was thinking about it for that reason, but then decided it really isn't that important and the H9 offers a lot that the V3 doesn't so, decided to stick with the H9, pretty happy with it so far! No camera has everything that someone might want in it, so its up to each individual to decide what is most important to them and then go for it.
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Photos-Mike
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Hi Carl...
In reply to cgarrard, May 1, 2007

I'm sitting in just about the same mental space as you. The only thing holding me back from trying the H9 is lack of RAW.

Besides the quality issue, which is paramount, there's also the workflow issue.

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Richard DK
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Tough Choice.
In reply to Photos-Mike, May 1, 2007

The availability of RAW and the Manual Zoom has me still leaning towards the FZ50 (Pany). But almost all users of that camera complain about its overly aggresive NR and want to be able to turn it off. The H9 lacks raw and the manual zoom, but provides several nice features the FZ50 doesn't and no one seems to be compaining about noise. (At least almost no one.)

It is a hard choice between two great cameras each lacking something the other has.

I will wait for the dpreview and AAK's assessment on the H9
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David A Melges
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On the bright side...
In reply to cgarrard, May 1, 2007

....here I go doing some MAJOR guessing....the H is no threat to DSLR sales...the reason they don't put RAW in the Hs is not to keep it from competing with the Alpha, but to keep it from competing with the F and the R series.

I'm guessing (more hoping to be honest) that refusing to include RAW this time means they still have an R or F in the pipeline for this year....or even a V.

There is another excellent point someone made...the H is equal parts camera design and marketing design....they don't want you to have RAW, because they don't want you to know just how much noise the camera generates even at ISO 100. In other words, they don't want the noisy unfiltered images to get out...

Gotta like the H for what it is...a truly inexpensive long lens solution.

dave
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AAK
AAK
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Re: H9 im a sad panda
In reply to cgarrard, May 1, 2007

I shoot RAW with my D200
I shoot .jpg with my H9

The answer is very simple: If you want RAW, buy a camera designed to shoot RAW. But not a Sony. Their support for RAW has always been questionable, producing unnecessarily huge files and poor performance in RAW.

Buy the R1. It has RAW.

The H9 is a consumer superzoom. It is not meant to be a DSLR replacement or even a Bridge camera.

Would I prefer it had RAW? If Sony improved their RAW and got the same performance that they did out of .jpg.

But be warned. These digicams are not designed for RAW even when they support it. They just don't have the horsepower.

Ask the Olmpus forum. They have this marvelously fast (not as fast as advertised) burst mode. But in RAW? One shot. One only. One every ten seconds or so.

Before you go buy the Pany for its RAW capabilities, I suggest you check out what the RAW performance and file sizes are. You may be in for quite a surprise!

But for the millions of H1, H2 and H5 owners (literally), RAW has never been a defining issue. And I doubt it will become one.

Good luck on your search for another camera.

PS: It doesn't do dishes or have a hot shot, either!

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AAK
AAK
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One more point
In reply to cgarrard, May 1, 2007

Boy, am I getting tired of everyone ragging on Sony just after they came out with a great new camera.

In your message, you stated:

"The H9 has so much going for it, so much in one small package. But that strategic move, really leaves a bad taste in my mouth again, if that was the reason."

What strategic move are you talking about?
What negative fantasy has arisen from your disappointment?

The H1, the first H camera, came out, without RAW, before Sony was even in the DSLR business. No strategic dirty trick (implied) thereupon. It's a low-cost, high-value line and RAW has simply never figured into it.

If you had researched the series, you would have known this and not been disappointed.

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Urbanito
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Re: One more point
In reply to AAK, May 1, 2007

I know a lot of friends who bought DSRL cameras and almost don't use RAW, because it is much more simple and less time consuming and they are not...Pros or Retired. They spent the money and they don't use what is available. And I am suspicious that this phenomenon is much wider than just my friends.

This does not mean I don't understand the possibilities and advantages, but think about: how many times are you using raw? This YOU is addressed to the common of mortals and not to the ones that really use it. I also have the strange impression that most of the people that criticize a P&S camera for not having raw are just using a kind of snob wording to look smart and knowledgeable, but I bag your indulgence for my words.
Have JPEG fun.
Joao

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Olga Johnson
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JPG fun indeed
In reply to Urbanito, May 1, 2007

Joao,

I'm not a pro or retired but I use my Canon dSLRs with raw only. That's because I have a workflow which is simpler than one from jpg as dSLR jpgs will always need some PP for one reason or another.

Sony's raw on my F828 was inefficient. It was slow to capture and write, took way too much space on the card (compared to jpg and Canon raw which is compressed) and I didn't like the workflow to convert.

The fun of the H series for me is their simplicity. I point and shoot and most times do nothing other than resize to share my pictures.

Olga

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Type Diva
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Re: One more point
In reply to Urbanito, May 1, 2007

I agree. As a professional photographer (among other things) I find that shooting in RAW is often overkill, particularly if you are shooting with a good camera and lenses. RAW certainly has its place, but I doubt that that place is in a camera like the H9 which most people will be buying for the 15x optical zoom and its size and weight.

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Urbanito
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Re: JPG fun indeed
In reply to Olga Johnson, May 1, 2007

Olga:
As I have said, my words were not for the ones, like you, which use RAW.
Kind regards
Joao

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LaMesa
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Re: H9 im a sad panda
In reply to cgarrard, May 1, 2007

You are asking too much. The H9 does not belong in the 828 or R1 class.
Herbert
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AAK
AAK
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Re: One more point
In reply to Urbanito, May 1, 2007

Joao,

I think the people looking for RAW are siincere, just looking in the wrong place.

It's when they start seeing some grand strategic conspiracy that I get concerned!

You're right about most people not using RAW. And on some cameras, the .jpgs are actually better than RAW. But I do use RAW all the time when shooting with my D200, and I appreciate its advantages (and disadvantages :-).

I just don't expect to see it, nor do I care if I see it, in an H-Series camera.

Urbanito wrote:

I know a lot of friends who bought DSRL cameras and almost don't
use RAW, because it is much more simple and less time consuming and
they are not...Pros or Retired. They spent the money and they don't
use what is available. And I am suspicious that this phenomenon is
much wider than just my friends.
This does not mean I don't understand the possibilities and
advantages, but think about: how many times are you using raw? This
YOU is addressed to the common of mortals and not to the ones that
really use it. I also have the strange impression that most of the
people that criticize a P&S camera for not having raw are just
using a kind of snob wording to look smart and knowledgeable, but I
bag your indulgence for my words.
Have JPEG fun.
Joao

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=~ Author of The White Paper
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AAK
AAK
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Ditto!
In reply to Olga Johnson, May 1, 2007

I do exactly the same (Nikon compressed RAW). Of course D200 shots really do need PP - they're intentionally soft. They're designed for PP.

There's one thing I must say about the H9. I've had to throttle back my PP. So many of the shots are coming out of the camera with nothing to do!

Olga Johnson wrote:

Joao,

I'm not a pro or retired but I use my Canon dSLRs with raw only.
That's because I have a workflow which is simpler than one from jpg
as dSLR jpgs will always need some PP for one reason or another.

Sony's raw on my F828 was inefficient. It was slow to capture and
write, took way too much space on the card (compared to jpg and
Canon raw which is compressed) and I didn't like the workflow to
convert.

The fun of the H series for me is their simplicity. I point and
shoot and most times do nothing other than resize to share my
pictures.

Olga

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=~ Author of The White Paper
=~ http://www.aakatz.com/whitepaper

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Sonn Franken
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Re: H9 im a sad panda
In reply to cgarrard, May 1, 2007

Hmmm a sad Panda..... did you ever exchange tears with a Panda?? I find this comment too strange for words.... Considering all this package offers for only about 400 dollars/euro... and then bashing it for a lack of RAW.... and more, pointing at Sony for some scheme in it's marketing strategy...??? Geeezzzz, there were times (not too long ago) the 828's and even 717's were sold for more than twice. DSLRs were way more expensive even without lenses.. Whatever opinion one may have (I regret it being that small and soo leight) it is a fact the H9 offers a lot for it's money. So if one is questioning it's performance or capacities... please do so on acceptable merits, not on such "loose cannon" remarks.

Hmm, one thing more, the fact that no further comment after your first remark has been posted in this thread makes it more and more questionable to me and indicates it is nothing but bashing without real foundation at all. Hmmm, who said the trolls would get underground in summer?

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