Linux workflow for 30D/20D and Cinepaint

Started Mar 15, 2007 | Discussions
Karl Piers
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Linux workflow for 30D/20D and Cinepaint
Mar 15, 2007

As a long-term Linux user I'm investigating how best to work with raw files from my 30D - I've been avoiding this for too long, but would like to bite the bullet ...

Has anyone already been down this route? If so, do you have any suggestions on a recommended workflow?

My current thinking is to use dcraw to convert .cr2 files to tiff, then cinepaint for image processing. Is there any advantage using dcraw to convert to ppm, then ImageMagick to tiff? I'm new to cinepaint (although have much experience with gimp), so is a colour profile required for the 30D for when finally converting down to JPG?

Any suggestions, experiences would be appreciated.

bnp
bnp
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Re: Linux workflow for 30D/20D and Cinepaint
In reply to Karl Piers, Mar 15, 2007

If I were you, I'd just bite the bullet and dual boot Windows for your image editing. That's what I do. I think you'd be happier in the long run. I've been using Linux on a daily basis for about seven years now, but I keep Windows around for Photoshop, iTunes, etc. I've considered going over to Apple to get the Unix underpinnings, but the niceties of Windows. Too expensive for my blood though.

Sorry I don't have a real answer to your question. I'm sure it can be done, but it'll take longer and probably won't be as user friendly as doing it in Windows.

Ben

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Rick Thorne
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Re: Linux workflow for 30D/20D and Cinepaint
In reply to Karl Piers, Mar 15, 2007

Really depends on your target final output? Is this for web posting, printing, personal use? Professional output for clients?

I'm just starting on cr2 files but tried the linux route ( I'm on the ubuntu art team ) with my NEF files and you have better options than Cinepaint. I never used TIFF either.

For fast personal/web use just get Picasa from google it's amazing for free and has the fastest image database I've used.

I liked the new rawtools and dcraw that's fine, and I believe there is also a gimp plugin and even gimpshop for a photoshop gui in linux.

gimp-print has the packages for your printing. I ended up going the dual boot route too unfortunately. Stock agencies I work with prefer clipping masks with the image data so I went back to regular photoshop cs2.

Linux (to me) isn't ready for fulltime Image processing work until Photoshop is native in linux.

You could also try vmware and install windows under linux(far better than WINE) if you don't want to deal with dual booting, it's a little slow but usable.
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ribian
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Re: Linux workflow for 30D/20D and Cinepaint
In reply to Karl Piers, Mar 15, 2007

I'm a dual boot user (kubuntu 6.06 being one) but I don't find the Linux alternatives as good as I wish neither for photo (passion) or CAD (work).

So I did a little investigation on Linux softwares, but for raw conversion I would suggest to try UFRaw as well (uses dcraw + GUI). The best imaging editor I found so far on Linux is Gimp (or Gimpshop, similar UI to PS), but after I tried PS I cannot be happy with it.
I've no experience with Cinepaint.
Kubuntu has Krita by default.
I would also suggest do investigate DigiKam.
Let us know.
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folder
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Re: Linux workflow for 30D/20D and Cinepaint
In reply to Karl Piers, Mar 15, 2007

can only say that I've just started this same journey. I'd read many posts here about using raw, played a bit with dcraw, but the piece that got me switched was seeing the manipulation capacity with ufraw -- so much for curves on jpegs! I've had cinepaint installed for a while but haven't done much with it, instead continuing to be impatient with the gimp getting to 16bit etc. came across http://www.kanzelsberger.com/pixel/ yesterday, claims to do all the good stuff but binaries only. a new version is supposed to come out today, so I'm waiting to try it out.

the author of the color management system argyll has announced that the next release will work with the gretag macbeth eye-one monitor colorimeters, and there's a profile-managed printing app called photoprint. the photoprint author will create printer profiles as a service if you send a print of his test sheet. that's at http://www.blackfiveservices.co.uk/photoprint.shtml . I used to use qimage under wine for the printing work, but the recent versions seem pretty bloated for wine and I think don't get on well with my dual monitors. also used to use neatimage under wine, it still works great but now I have a 30D

I use kphotoalbum for photo management and like it (but be nice if it could examine the photos and do all the database tags for me!). the current version handles .cr2 files and pulls the embedded jpeg out to make the thumbnail, although there is a bug in rotating the vertical shots (click through the recent mailing list archives for a very small patch to fix it, no doubt the next version will have it sorted).

at http://www.janerob.com/rob/img2dvd/ I've put up a perl script I use to copy files off mounted cf cards into both the date-named work dirs I point kphotoalbum at and then into another set of dirs where the files are packed together into dvd-sized chunks. this is the start of my workflow, script recently updated to handle .cr2 files of course.

once you select an image to work on it seems like the whole point of raw is to get the best version you can, so probably ufraw is the way to go to get the feedback while you play with the sliders. if you just need to get a bunch of .cr2's to become .jpg's, I worked out this command line earlier today:

for i in 'ls .. raw/dcim/102canon '; do dcraw -c -w .. raw/dcim/102canon $i ~ cjpeg > ./${i%.cr2}.jpg; done;

this particular line is for working within a dir where the .cr2 files are in .. raw from it, with the output .jpg files going into the current dir (obviously :-).

I wouldn't think you need a profile to use with dcraw for the 30D, however one could be generated using lprof or argyll and an appropriate it8 chart. I haven't worried too much about this step yet.

I also wouldn't see any point to bringing imagemagick in for the conversion to tiff if you don't need it; I believe all of these are lossless formats, and since dcraw presumably depends on having netpbm installed you will have pnmtotiff available.

good luck,

rob.

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Matthew Field
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Bibblepro
In reply to Karl Piers, Mar 15, 2007

http://www.bibblelabs.com

Once I started using it on my linux box I never looked back at the other options. Its arguably the best RAW conversion software on any platform, so its a complete bonus that there is a native Linux version.

You get what you pay for.

Batch convert to 16-bit TIFF for cinepaint use.

In fact, you'll find that you won't need to be using Cinepaint as much anymore as Bibble offers built in features such as lens correction, spot healing and good B&W conversion and day by day has more plugins that offer support for perspective correction, skin tone correction etc.

Check it out, its cheap for what it offers too.

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Gautam Majumdar
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Re: Linux workflow for 30D/20D and Cinepaint
In reply to Karl Piers, Mar 15, 2007

You can use one of the following raw converters in linux.

dcraw - CLI only though all the functions are there.

ufraw - dcraw with a nice gui. Quite a few options at conversion time. Can link directly to GIMP, i.e., can open the image from GIMP interface, with ufraw-gimp.

Lightzone - it is rather diffferent from other raw converters in the sense that the converter and image manipulation are moulded into one. The image manipulation options are somewhat different than others as it uses the zone system. For some images it is very good but overall a very spartan package for image editing. For monochrome images it is superb.

Bibblepro - not free. I have used only the time limited lite version. My feelings were that it is quite good but saw no particular advantage over ufraw-GIMP combination.

For image manipulation I found GIMP is the best. Cinepaint has 16 bit option but very few add-ons. Unless you really need 16 bit option, GIMP is far better. The next version of GIMP will include colour space.

Imagemagik is another good image manipulation package and has better batch processing facilities than GIMP (you will need an add-on for that in GIMP).

I would suggest that you try out ufraw+GIMP as you are already conversant with GIMP. Then try out ufraw as standalone to get 16 bit tiff images which you can then manipulate with cinepaint. Please note, cinepaint will change its architecture soon and will be named glasgow. Check out its homepage at http://www.cinepaint.org/
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lt_gustavsen
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Re: Linux workflow for 30D/20D and Cinepaint
In reply to Karl Piers, Mar 15, 2007

I am a long time linux user myself. I am sure you will be happy with that route. I'm not a pro, but I have sold enough pictures that I don't have any expenses with may hobby. For raw files I use bibblepro, dcraw or ufraw.

Bibblepro is a full easy to use workflow. It have many nice tools and feathers. It is also a lot of nice plugins to it. Like this http://nexi.com/andy

I still use dcraw and ufraw a lot. I really like the new ufraw version. It have a very nice auto exposure function, and best of all, the higlight recovery is very good. I don't like the GUI much, so I typically just get the tif file and edit it in my editor.

I also like to use dcraw. The new wavelet denoising is really good and fast.

My editor is picture window ( http://www.dl-c.com/ ). It's a windows program, but it run nicely under wine. It's just 3-4 mb big. The only extra step on the installation you need is this:
mkdir .wine/drive_c/windows/system32/color

It's very powerful, but it different. It supports icc profiles. I have also used gimp a lot in the past, but I use it now only for more graphic related tasks. One suggestion from me is to use cinepaint for all curve tasks, and the use gimp for the rest.

Imagemagick is also nice. Here is my test with it.
http://www.mulebakken.net/div/workflow1.sh

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MM1
MM1
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Re: Linux workflow for 30D/20D and Cinepaint
In reply to Karl Piers, Mar 15, 2007

I use ufraw/dcraw and then Cinepaint 0.21.2 to work with the pictures. Surely, Cinepaint itself is an old Gimp interface, with less plugins, but it works with huge color depths and has a HDR plugin (which I have yet to master :-).

Ordinary GIMP just isn't the way to go since it works with 8bit color depth only (and GEGL is still experimental). Bye bye 12bit raws and color manipulations.

The tools mentioned above are enough for me so far. For me, the amount of PP needed is one of the factors to judge the photo. The less PP, the better (to some extent).

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Gautam Majumdar
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Re: Linux workflow for 30D/20D and Cinepaint
In reply to MM1, Mar 15, 2007

What is the plug-in for HDR called ? Could you possibly give the url ?
Thanks

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Gautam

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MM1
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Re: Linux workflow for 30D/20D and Cinepaint
In reply to Gautam Majumdar, Mar 15, 2007

I don't have any idea about the url. The plugin was simply there. I downloaded Cinepaint source tarball, built it painstakingly on my openSuSE 10.1 which missed all kinds of necessary tools (like development versions of libtiff and libjpeg, GTK 1.x compatible dev scripts and other) in the beginning, and after I run it, I just load bracketed images into Cinepaint, and it creates the HDR.

Although it should be a plugin, it just comes with Cinepaint. At least the source tarball had it.

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Gautam Majumdar
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In reply to MM1, Mar 15, 2007
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Gautam

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Sean Rose
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Come on... it's 2007 here...
In reply to bnp, Mar 16, 2007
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Karl Piers
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Re: Linux workflow for 30D/20D and Cinepaint
In reply to Karl Piers, Mar 16, 2007

Thanks for all the responses. Dual boot/wine/vmware are of course always options. But after years of 'pure' Linux use, they really go against the grain. Raw image processing is the only area presenting any difficulty at the moment - everything else works just fine on Linux.

So, I'd like to stick to native Linux options - unless someone can point to a real show stopper.

Gimp is great, I've used it for years, but it's limited to 8 bit colour. Hence Cinepaint - it's 16 bit, and although not with the feature set of PS, it's obviously capable of high quality results since it's used by film companies for major motion pictures like Harry Potter, Spiderman, etc.

Going this route, and from the comments above, looks like the main tools presently are dcraw/ufraw to convert .cr2 to 16-bit tiff, then straight into cinepaint - together with some processing ImageMagick.

I'm still unclear though as to the relative pros/cons of say ImageMagick compared to Cinepaint, for instance. Any thoughts on this?

Rob/Guatam, given your comments I'll take a good look at ufraw.

Guatam: Appreciate your list. Lightzone is new to me - I'll check it out. We're obviously both happy GIMPers - but when 16-bit is needed then it's game over. W.r.t cinepaint, I'm aware of the Glasgow development, but it's still early alpha, and, choke , XP only.

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Karl Piers
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Re: Linux workflow for 30D/20D and Cinepaint
In reply to MM1, Mar 16, 2007

MM1 wrote:

I use ufraw/dcraw and then Cinepaint 0.21.2 to work with the
pictures. Surely, Cinepaint itself is an old Gimp interface, with
less plugins, but it works with huge color depths and has a HDR
plugin (which I have yet to master :-).

Ordinary GIMP just isn't the way to go since it works with 8bit
color depth only (and GEGL is still experimental). Bye bye 12bit
raws and color manipulations.

The tools mentioned above are enough for me so far. For me, the
amount of PP needed is one of the factors to judge the photo. The
less PP, the better (to some extent).

Your approach is closest to what I feel is intuitively correct. The Cinepaint interface doesn't matter - it's what it can do. I'd like to do some HDR work too.

Gautam: HDR support was added to Cinepaint 0.20 - see

http://cinepaint.bigasterisk.com/CinePaint020Released

There's a tutorial at:-

http://freenet-homepage.de/hsbosny/HDR_Tutorial/HDR_Tutorial-en.htm

I'm not sure if the plug in can be downloaded separately - haven't found it myself yet - I'm currently on Cinepaint 0.18-3 - will have to upgrade.

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folder
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Re: Linux workflow for 30D/20D and Cinepaint
In reply to Karl Piers, Mar 16, 2007

Karl Piers wrote:

I'm still unclear though as to the relative pros/cons of say
ImageMagick compared to Cinepaint, for instance. Any thoughts on
this?

ImageMagick is a set of command-line tools, while cinepaint like gimp is a full gui image editor. seems to me like photo work is inherently a gui kind of task, so like using ufraw over dcraw to see the feedback when you change a parameter cinepaint would probably be better for individual photo manipulation. if you know what parameters and/or changes you want to use already, especially on multiple files (batch processing) then dcraw and ImageMagick would be the way to go.

also seems like you could just work in netpbm format as it comes out of dcraw instead of converting to tiff.

rob.

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fhe
fhe
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Re: Linux workflow for 30D/20D and Cinepaint
In reply to Karl Piers, Mar 16, 2007

Karl Piers wrote:

Gimp is great, I've used it for years, but it's limited to 8 bit
colour. Hence Cinepaint - it's 16 bit, and although not with the
feature set of PS, it's obviously capable of high quality results
since it's used by film companies for major motion pictures like
Harry Potter, Spiderman, etc.

I agree with Matthew Field earlier in the thread and suggest that you download the free 14 day trial of BibblePro. I'll be surprised if you don't find the $129 for the pro version or the $69 for the lite version (could very well be good enough for your needs) well spent money (especially since the pro version includes a Noise Ninja license which IIRC is normally $79).

If you happen to switch to Mac or revert back to Windows it is available there as well.

http://www.bibblelabs.com/

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Gautam Majumdar
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In reply to Karl Piers, Mar 16, 2007
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Gautam

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Gautam Majumdar
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Re: Linux workflow for 30D/20D and Cinepaint
In reply to Karl Piers, Mar 16, 2007

Karl, I installed the version 0.20 and found the HDR which is incorporated in the main program. It did the processing OK, but I could not save the image :-). It is saving an empty file. There is a later version - 0.21, but I could not install it on Mdv2007 due to dependency problem. Guess, I have to wait for the glasgow version.
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bnp
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Re: Come on... it's 2007 here...
In reply to Sean Rose, Mar 18, 2007

Yes, the gap has lessened, but there is still enough of a difference in price between Macs and PCs to keep me from going Mac.

Ben

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