Gallery of Horrors (M8)

Started Nov 23, 2006 | Discussions
tashley
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Gallery of Horrors (M8)
Nov 23, 2006

Ok folks, all regulars now know that I love my M8 and defend it to the hilt (-ish) but the time has come to post my Gallery of Horrors. Yes, one each of the major faults for anyone who doubts or has yet to see a textbook example.

Interestingly these were all shot on my first feverish honeymoon night with the chrome and leather temptress and since then I have had far fewer issues. I post them as a lighthearted exercise and as a cautionary tale to Leica. Many of us love your wee beastie but when you make your official response clear, be aware that at this price we really do expect to see the back end of this sort of thing.

All at default in Lightroom, no point in dumping them into C1 because believe me, you could spend longer than it would be worth to get them right even with Leica's C1 profile as shipped.

My dark secrets are out: in reverse order of nastiness:

First: The Green Blob. Look at the bottom of the shot and see that the shapes of the discolorations are the inverse of the bright lights at the top. Would you bother to clone this out unless it were a real keeper?

Next: Streaking - or is it just very thin banding?

Now the ultimate magenta nightmare: look at the pink/purple/magenta sign at top right (the rest of the image is a mess too) and notice that the shades of all the above colors shift as the surface gets further from the light source and therefore I assume less affected by its IR content. Profile that if you dare.

For my next trick, a close friend goes rather a strange color. We have bad auto WB combined with other nasties to present a classic (but not as good as the next one!)

And finally, I present the 'piece de resitance': Magenta, Green Blob, Banding and Something Entirely Unreported all in one shot. To my great shame I didn't take this myself, I handed the camera to a friend, an amateur with evident skill. What she did to P* s of my M8 I will never know but it clearly did NOT like her. I defy anyone to beat this.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Tim
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Greg Gebhardt
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Sorry and Happy Thanksgiving
In reply to tashley, Nov 23, 2006
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tashley
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Re: Sorry and Happy Thanksgiving
In reply to Greg Gebhardt, Nov 24, 2006

Hey Greg,

Don't be sorry, I'm not! Like I said I love my Leica, however capricious she might sometimes be!

Ti
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ddk
ddk
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Aaaaaaahhhhhhhh!
In reply to tashley, Nov 24, 2006

Happy Thanksgiving Tim!

This is unbelievable, I was just beginning to relax looking at the 2nd and 3rd round of pictures posted here while waiting for mine but now I know exactly what I have to do, thanks.

At this point I can't return my lenses and I'm not ready to go to e-bay and lose my shirt on brand new items. I'm now ready to go the film route but I have a question. There are some that say that the best last Leica was the M4 and anything after just isn't the same, is this true?

david

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Angelo78
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Well>>>
In reply to tashley, Nov 24, 2006

Those are interesting examples. I've found auto WB on any camera to be "off" unless in sunlight. So, with that said, I wouldn't put too much fault towards Leica. Not that I'm a WB authority but from what I've seem auto WB is a tricky thing to do well.

As for that last one...wow what a combo! LOL! I'm not sure what went on in that one. I can say your attitude is great. You lean towards what your camera CAN do instead of what its faults (and I use that term loosely) may be.

Thanks for sharing....and Happy Thanksgiving to you too.

Angelo

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Ed Bigelow
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Re: Look of the bright side
In reply to tashley, Nov 24, 2006

Well you certainly have "plumbed the depths" as well as gotten some great images with that camera!

Ed

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sghound
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wow, excellent post
In reply to Ed Bigelow, Nov 24, 2006

aside from the nasties, they still look sharp.

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eastvillager
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Re: Gallery of Horrors (M8)
In reply to tashley, Nov 24, 2006

Tim,

We've had our differences and I've beem laying low since I took a pounding from the M8 crowd here for my harsh criticism of Leica and the M8, but I must say I have tons more respect for you after reading this post. I hope Lecia adequately fixes all the problems for you and the other M8 owners. Making photographs should be something that comes easy. I remember my Nikon D1 that had such a terrible image and I'm still angry at Nikon for turning out such a bad camera. Probably accounts for my reaction to this new camera. But I excuse them since it was many moons ago and the technolgy was just beginning. But in 2006 Leica should have produced a highly anticipated camera with few problems if any. I hope it all works out for you, for Leica and the other owners and hopefully everything is fixed and the camera consistently produces the great images I have seen posted here. If it all works out I look forward to an M series camera in the near future.

Good Luck,

Steven

tashley wrote:

Ok folks, all regulars now know that I love my M8 and defend it to
the hilt (-ish) but the time has come to post my Gallery of
Horrors. Yes, one each of the major faults for anyone who doubts or
has yet to see a textbook example.

Interestingly these were all shot on my first feverish honeymoon
night with the chrome and leather temptress and since then I have
had far fewer issues. I post them as a lighthearted exercise and as
a cautionary tale to Leica. Many of us love your wee beastie but
when you make your official response clear, be aware that at this
price we really do expect to see the back end of this sort of thing.

All at default in Lightroom, no point in dumping them into C1
because believe me, you could spend longer than it would be worth
to get them right even with Leica's C1 profile as shipped.

My dark secrets are out: in reverse order of nastiness:

First: The Green Blob. Look at the bottom of the shot and see that
the shapes of the discolorations are the inverse of the bright
lights at the top. Would you bother to clone this out unless it
were a real keeper?

Next: Streaking - or is it just very thin banding?

Now the ultimate magenta nightmare: look at the pink/purple/magenta
sign at top right (the rest of the image is a mess too) and notice
that the shades of all the above colors shift as the surface gets
further from the light source and therefore I assume less affected
by its IR content. Profile that if you dare.

For my next trick, a close friend goes rather a strange color. We
have bad auto WB combined with other nasties to present a classic
(but not as good as the next one!)

And finally, I present the 'piece de resitance': Magenta, Green
Blob, Banding and Something Entirely Unreported all in one shot. To
my great shame I didn't take this myself, I handed the camera to a
friend, an amateur with evident skill. What she did to P* s of my
M8 I will never know but it clearly did NOT like her. I defy anyone
to beat this.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Tim
--
Gallery: http://web.mac.com/tashley1/iWeb/timashley.com/Home.html
Blog: http://timashley.wordpress.com/

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Bear 740
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Re: Gallery of Horrors (M8)
In reply to tashley, Nov 24, 2006

AFter looking at your shots, at first I thought you had a white balance problem but after looking at the rest of yor pictures, I think this camera has some serious sensor problems. It could be software related and could be corrected, I hope that is all it is but the sensor is not receiving the right information, there are various problems here and that leads me to think sensor. Software might have one or two problems but there are a host of problems on your pictures. You may have a faulty sensor in your camera and you should contact Leica and explain or send these pics to their rep and I would bet they would want you to send the camera back to them and they will send you a new one.

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med007
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Re: Gallery of Horrors (M8)
In reply to tashley, Nov 24, 2006

tashley wrote:

Ok folks, all regulars now know that I love my M8 and defend it to
the hilt (-ish) but the time has come to post my Gallery of
Horrors. Yes, one each of the major faults for anyone who doubts or
has yet to see a textbook example.

Interestingly these were all shot on my first feverish honeymoon
night with the chrome and leather temptress and since then I have
had far fewer issues. I post them as a lighthearted exercise and as
a cautionary tale to Leica. Many of us love your wee beastie but
when you make your official response clear, be aware that at this
price we really do expect to see the back end of this sort of thing.

.................

And finally, I present the 'piece de resitance': Magenta, Green
Blob, Banding and Something Entirely Unreported all in one shot. To
my great shame I didn't take this myself, I handed the camera to a
friend, an amateur with evident skill. What she did to P* s of my
M8 I will never know but it clearly did NOT like her. I defy anyone
to beat this.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Tim
--
Gallery: http://web.mac.com/tashley1/iWeb/timashley.com/Home.html
Blog: http://timashley.wordpress.com/

Tim,

Sorry you have these issues! Do you want to sell your camera because a lot of guys would snap it up!

Of course it's unacceptable that a venerable brand should deliver such effects! The great thing is that Lecia, far from senying anything is upfront and has, they say, the solution to the green globs, the streaking and the streaking in the firmware. They say it's solved. We'll have too see, but they have at least addressed the issue.

Next the purple from IR reflections are 90% dealt with in post processing using a curve in C1 by Jamie Roberts. In any case, the IR filter will abolish 90 of these issues and the remaining fraction will be removed by the RAW processor.

Right now the camera is fine for a lot of work and of course B&W.

I have no doubt that by February 2007. Everyone will be more than happy with their M8 cameras.

Leica is updating the cameras for free, providing free IR filters and 30% of a brand new Leica lens from Germany.

I'm testing the camera right now so I can't say more. However, I've been following closely the work of Sean Reid, Guy Mancuso Jamie Roberts and others tells me things have changed, really changed.

Your pictures pictures are, as you point out, unacceptable and a dissappointment. You have sadly been let down!

However, what you have shown, are no longer representative of where things are at with the M8!

Asher Kelman

http://www.openphotographyforums.com

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Juuso
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Ha! Reminds me of my woes with...
In reply to tashley, Nov 24, 2006

my 1 year old Alfa Romeo! Best looks and handling of its class, BUT serious issues with reliability sometimes!
Still no Toyotas for me.
True love comes through some troubled times, I suppose.
Keep the spirit! (its still has the looks and handling you know)

Juuso

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tashley
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A reply to everyone so far!
In reply to tashley, Nov 24, 2006

Thank you for reading the post and looking at the edifying shots but I am not sure that I made either the mood or intention of what I wrote clear, as a result of Forum Nuance Fade. FNF is when you're trying to be jovial and it doesn't come out in what you type!

My point was that though of course I expect Leica to do their best to fix this stuff, I want very much to keep my M8 and indeed to invest in further glass. Now that we've all largely done with our shouting about the issues, on both sides, I simply wanted, tongue in cheek, to show that for all the shots I'd previously posted which were meant to show how competent the camera can be, there is also a series of serious issues that need addressing. We all knew that but people rarely post the evidence. I do not believe by the way that my camera has a sensor which is any more or less faulty than the first shipped batch but if someone from Leica tells me otherwise I'd be delighted to hear it. Also I want to re-iterate that I did nothing in PP to ameliorate the problems and that some of these shots (clearly not the last one) might have been saved with some work.

Finally: this was a small number of horrors out of hundreds of good shots, and the following picture, very large, makes such an beautiful print that for me it illustrates all the very good reasons why my camera may go back to Solms but is extremely unlikely to go back to the dealer!

Tim
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AdamT
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Grab an R-D1 as an interim
In reply to ddk, Nov 24, 2006

The R-D1's only issue is Vignetting and it's minimal to Zero with Leica glass anyway (only the slower CV lenses really suffer) - great camera which even has an excellent JPG engine, no need to resort to expensive Film to used your lenses!

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AdamT
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Re: Gallery of Horrors (M8)
In reply to tashley, Nov 24, 2006

friend, an amateur with evident skill. What she did to P* s of my
M8 I will never know

Taking Pictures of Princess Anne is enough to pissany Camera off

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charlesh
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film Leicas
In reply to ddk, Nov 24, 2006

Many will swear by the M3 as having the best viewfinder. Me, the M6 and M6TTL have me firmly entrenched in the film world. You can still get some great deals on used M bodies. Digital, my D200 will do until leica gets things right.
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tashley
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Re: Gallery of Horrors (M8)
In reply to AdamT, Nov 24, 2006

ROFL - very harsh Actually this lady was really rather attractive but I'm not sure I got the lighting quite up to studio standards...

Adam-T wrote:

friend, an amateur with evident skill. What she did to P* s of my
M8 I will never know

Taking Pictures of Princess Anne is enough to pissany Camera off

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tashley
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Re: Aaaaaaahhhhhhhh!
In reply to ddk, Nov 24, 2006

David, relax - this is a small portion of a lot of shots which worked just fine. All of these are under pretty testing conditions and are displaying issues which I believe will get fixed anyway.

By all means wait til the first batch of fixed cameras has shipped and been evaluated (I wouldn't, do that myself though because by then the queue might be round the block!) but please don't, as a result of this selection of shots, assume that the M8 doesn't perform. It largely does and when it does it is superb. Take a deep breath and dive. The water might be a slightly funny color, but it's lovely....

Tim

ddk wrote:

Happy Thanksgiving Tim!

This is unbelievable, I was just beginning to relax looking at the
2nd and 3rd round of pictures posted here while waiting for mine
but now I know exactly what I have to do, thanks.

At this point I can't return my lenses and I'm not ready to go to
e-bay and lose my shirt on brand new items. I'm now ready to go the
film route but I have a question. There are some that say that the
best last Leica was the M4 and anything after just isn't the same,
is this true?

david

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venice
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Re: A reply to everyone so far!
In reply to tashley, Nov 24, 2006

tashley wrote:

Thank you for reading the post and looking at the edifying shots
but I am not sure that I made either the mood or intention of what
I wrote clear, as a result of Forum Nuance Fade. FNF is when you're
trying to be jovial and it doesn't come out in what you type!

Thanks for the post. I also love my new M8 and have taken 100's of shots thus far. I have had very few with any of the problem issues although I went to a basketball game the other day and those shots are all too magenta. It was easily corrected but I should have used the cut filter.

I am a big fan of the M8 and hope Leica is able to offer a good solution for the majority of users.

Have you taken any wide shots under tough conditions yet?

Best,

Bill

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KeithMC
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Re: Gallery of Horrors (M8)
In reply to tashley, Nov 24, 2006

After drinking all those bottle of fizz and claret I can see behind her I'm not surprised at the image Besides which I've always fancied Princess Anne!!

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tashley
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Re: A reply to everyone so far!
In reply to venice, Nov 24, 2006

Hi Bill,

I have anew CV15mm (well, second hand actually) and have taken a few shots which have been pretty darn good but not under tough lighting conditions yet so will let you know!

Best

Tim

venice wrote:

I am a big fan of the M8 and hope Leica is able to offer a good
solution for the majority of users.

Have you taken any wide shots under tough conditions yet?

Best,

Bill

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