$600 D40 -vs- $650 Rebel XT

Started Nov 16, 2006 | Discussions
lukewarm
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$600 D40 -vs- $650 Rebel XT
Nov 16, 2006

The Nikon D40's target demographic are people who are buying their first dSLR --- those who don't have lenses yet, aren't married to a particular brand's system, and very likely measure their cameras' worth by megapixels.

The D40 ($600) is only marginally cheaper than Canon's EOS 350D ($650). The 350D has more advanced features, it's not castrated, has less noise, carries a more "popular" brand name, and has 33% more megapixels. All for $50 extra.

What possible reason could any newbie have to choose the D40? From a marketing standpoint, I don't get Nikon's reasoning behind the camera. The D50 was a worthy competition to the 350D, but now the D40 is vastly inferior to both cameras.

It's senseless. Photo enthusiasts would most likely be coming into the dSLR market from their 7-MP and 10-MP point-n-shoots. How unlikely is it for a newbie to eaglerly accept a megapixel downgrade upon entering the more expensive dSLR world?

ravivhr
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Re: $600 D40 -vs- $650 Rebel XT
In reply to lukewarm, Nov 16, 2006

The 350D is a model that is out of production. True you may buy new ones that are stil avialable but my guess is that in 6 months there will be none and the D40 will rule

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mbareetbc
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Re: $600 D40 -vs- $650 Rebel XT
In reply to ravivhr, Nov 16, 2006

or just get the d50 now
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mpixel
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Re: $600 D40 -vs- $650 Rebel XT
In reply to ravivhr, Nov 16, 2006

ravivhr wrote:

The 350D is a model that is out of production. True you may buy new
ones that are stil avialable but my guess is that in 6 months there
will be none and the D40 will rule

The 350D will remain in the line-up until after Christmas beyond that, availability is anyone’s guess.

But then perhaps Canon will finally release the rumoured 3000D (or current equivalent) early next year.

It was interesting to note that when the 400D was released Canon said that they planned to take 45% of the market between from September to December with it. It makes me wonder if they have something else planned for 2007.

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lukewarm
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Re: $600 D40 -vs- $650 Rebel XT
In reply to ravivhr, Nov 16, 2006

ravivhr wrote:

The 350D is a model that is out of production. True you may buy new
ones that are stil avialable but my guess is that in 6 months there
will be none and the D40 will rule

Really? I was always under the impression that Canon generally keeps old models in the market for one full generation beyond its release. Heck, the EOS 20D is still being sold brand new right now.

I just think Nikon made a big (marketing) mistake with the D40. They had the right idea with the D50 --- cheap enough and good enough to compete with Canon's entry level dSLR at the time (350D). The D40 is cheap enough, but certainly nowhere near good enough in 2007. Heck, it's not even good enough to compete with dSLRs from 2004.

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thomas2279
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Re: $600 D40 -vs- $650 Rebel XT
In reply to lukewarm, Nov 16, 2006

According to everyone else the 350 Xt is at the end of its life and has been replaced by the 400XT plus the 400Xt is aimed squarely at competing with the D80 whereas the 30d/40d is aimed at competing with the D200.

With the D40 I cannot see a rival yet from Canon, Sony, Samsung, etc that goes against it and is an ideal camera for a beginner to Dslrs...

You state that the D40 is noiser than the 350xt how do you know when it is not even out yet and no reviews/comparisons have been made.

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thebard37
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Re: $600 D40 -vs- $650 Rebel XT
In reply to thomas2279, Nov 16, 2006

Things Nikon should have included:

Kelvin white balance, because a lot of P&S cameras have that already, hell my sister's cell phone does.

8MP would have made it more attractive, as one poster has already pointed out, a lot of P&S-ers are coming from 7-10MP cameras anyhow.

I still think it will sell very well though, because those who are interested in build quality, etc, will choose it over a 350d, and those who are interested in brand recognition will choose it over a olympus or pentax.

And some less intellegent folks will compare it to the A100, get the A100 for the MP/Sony factor, and end up with a worse camera. : )

I don't think it is a bad move by Nikon at all-- this camera could do well in the Big Box stores.

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Superstreetfighter
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I'm new
In reply to thomas2279, Nov 16, 2006

I am looking for a dSLR. (My 1st)
Why am I interested in this camera?

For me the $50 is not too different, but one thing I always read about is Canon's kit lens is sub standard, but Nikon's is nicer.

This is a small dSLR, same price as G7, I don't know how good the lens is, but I presume its nice.

My Digital P+S died, so I am looking for a replacement.
This is same price as top P+S
Maybe compare it to XTi, maybe G7 (Pricewise)

Thats why I'm looking for a review!!!

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lukewarm
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Re: $600 D40 -vs- $650 Rebel XT
In reply to thomas2279, Nov 16, 2006

thomas2279 wrote:

According to everyone else the 350 Xt is at the end of its life and

Well, everybody else must be wrong then. The 350D is still available right now, and the assumption that it will be gone within a few months is TOTALLY unfounded. The EOS 20D (from 2004) is still available brand new at most major online stores right now. Based on Canon's history, the 20D will not disappear until its successor (30D) is replaced by a newer version. That is always the case with Canon. We saw the same thing with the 300D, which was readily available at most major online stores up until the 400D showed up.

has been replaced by the 400XT plus the 400Xt is aimed squarely at
competing with the D80 whereas the 30d/40d is aimed at competing
with the D200.

Nikon has very smartly tried to avoid direct compeition with Canon models. The D80 isn't aimed squarely at the 400D alone. It's priced EXACTLY between the 400D and 30D, just as the D200 is priced between the 30D and 5D. It can be easily argued that the D80 has as much in common with the 30D as the 400D --- in terms of price, build quality, target demographic, and features.

With the D40 I cannot see a rival yet from Canon, Sony, Samsung,
etc that goes against it and is an ideal camera for a beginner to
Dslrs...

I believe the 350D is in direct competition with the D40. People are constantly comparing the D80 to the 400D despite the $200 difference. Now imagine how people would look at the D40, the 350D, and their negligible $50 difference.

You state that the D40 is noiser than the 350xt how do you know
when it is not even out yet and no reviews/comparisons have been
made.

I think everyone can pretty much agree that the 8MP 350D at 1600 ISO is less noisy than the 10MP CCD sensors from A100, D80 and D200. It's also a bit less noisy than the 6MP sensors from D70, and D50. Pretty much every single review out there will confirm that, even here at dpreview. It doesn't mean the 350D is "better" than those cameras. It's not --- it lacks too many features from the Nikon dSLRs. But it doesn't change the fact that the 350D is simply less noisy at high ISO.

Now, do you honestly believe the D40 will be miraculously less noisy than the D200 and D80 and D70 and D50? I don't, and I think its more than reasonable assumption.

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mpixel
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Re: I'm new
In reply to Superstreetfighter, Nov 16, 2006

Superstreetfighter wrote:

I am looking for a dSLR. (My 1st)
Why am I interested in this camera?
For me the $50 is not too different, but one thing I always read
about is Canon's kit lens is sub standard, but Nikon's is nicer.

This kit lens is not the one that everyone was talking about. They were talking about the 18-70. I don't know how the 18-55 I or II compares to the Canon kit lens.

This is a small dSLR, same price as G7, I don't know how good the
lens is, but I presume its nice.

My Digital P+S died, so I am looking for a replacement.
This is same price as top P+S
Maybe compare it to XTi, maybe G7 (Pricewise)

Thats why I'm looking for a review!!!

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T'Pol
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Feeling a little insecure, Mr Canonite?
In reply to lukewarm, Nov 16, 2006

lukewarm wrote:

The Nikon D40's target demographic are people who are buying their
first dSLR --- those who don't have lenses yet, aren't married to a
particular brand's system, and very likely measure their cameras'
worth by megapixels.

Yep.

The D40 ($600) is only marginally cheaper than Canon's EOS 350D
($650).

You mean Canon's discontinued 350xt. If you look around you'll find that discontinued products often sell quite cheaply.

What possible reason could any newbie have to choose the D40?

Hmmmm......
Because they have hands larger than an elf?
Because they want good low-light AF?
Because they don't want to stick the flash up for AF assist?
Because they want a spot meter?
Because they want a decent sized buffer?
Because they want Auto-ISO?
Because they appreciate ergonomics and well designed displays?
Because they want a large, bright viewfinder?
Because they want ISO3200?
Because they don't want a superceded camera?
Because they don't want a 1.8" LCD?
Because they want to save $300 over the real alternative [xti]

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mpixel
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Re: $600 D40 -vs- $650 Rebel XT
In reply to thomas2279, Nov 16, 2006

thomas2279 wrote:

According to everyone else the 350 Xt is at the end of its life and
has been replaced by the 400XT plus the 400Xt is aimed squarely at
competing with the D80 whereas the 30d/40d is aimed at competing
with the D200.

With the D40 I cannot see a rival yet from Canon, Sony, Samsung,
etc that goes against it and is an ideal camera for a beginner to
Dslrs...

The Pentax K100D and K110D compete with this camera very nicely as did the *ist DL and *ist DL2 before them.

Samsung also had their version of the *ist DL2.

One thing that Nikon have done a good job on here is the RAW buffer. The K100D/K110D only have 3 shot RAW buffers.

[...]

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Will64
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Re: $600 D40 -vs- $650 Rebel XT
In reply to lukewarm, Nov 16, 2006

Now, do you honestly believe the D40 will be miraculously less
noisy than the D200 and D80 and D70 and D50? I don't, and I think
its more than reasonable assumption.

Yes, it is a fair assumption that the D40 will be less noisy than any of the above cameras, and it's no miracle. For one, you're comparing apples to oranges. The D200 & D80 have different sensors than the D70, D50 & D40. Each time Nikon has introduced a new body using the same sensor as a previous body, they improved on the noise. The D80 has better noise than the D200. The D50 has better noise than the D70, and it stands to reason that Nikon very well may have improved the noise on the D40. Don't forget, they are offering ISO3200 with the D40.

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Pavel S
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Nikon's reasoning
In reply to lukewarm, Nov 16, 2006

lukewarm wrote:

It's senseless. Photo enthusiasts would most likely be coming into
the dSLR market from their 7-MP and 10-MP point-n-shoots. How
unlikely is it for a newbie to eaglerly accept a megapixel
downgrade upon entering the more expensive dSLR world?

I disagree with you here, those photo enthusiasts with some experience with point 'n shoot digi cameras, who are looking for upgrade, they are already aware of what they are lacking on their current gear and I guess they have some idea what features do they expect from the upgrade. Such users are not total newbies, hence this group of photo enthusiasts will probably aim higher that at D40.

The D40 is for total beginners. Heck, I even believe that it will be the first camera ever for many of is users (you know, the marketing thing: "the most affordable DSLR, packed with most advanced features..."). And that is the reasoning behind D40 (IMO).

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photoforfun
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Re: $600 D40 -vs- $650 Rebel XT
In reply to lukewarm, Nov 16, 2006

Lukewarm wrote:...carries a more "popular" brand name...

Written by a Canon owner I guess???
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Eivissa
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Re: Nikon's reasoning
In reply to Pavel S, Nov 16, 2006

Pavel S wrote:

lukewarm wrote:

It's senseless. Photo enthusiasts would most likely be coming into
the dSLR market from their 7-MP and 10-MP point-n-shoots. How
unlikely is it for a newbie to eaglerly accept a megapixel
downgrade upon entering the more expensive dSLR world?

I disagree with you here, those photo enthusiasts with some
experience with point 'n shoot digi cameras, who are looking for
upgrade, they are already aware of what they are lacking on their
current gear and I guess they have some idea what features do they
expect from the upgrade. Such users are not total newbies, hence
this group of photo enthusiasts will probably aim higher that at
D40.
The D40 is for total beginners. Heck, I even believe that it will
be the first camera ever for many of is users (you know, the
marketing thing: "the most affordable DSLR, packed with most
advanced features..."). And that is the reasoning behind D40 (IMO).

Think you're wrong there. I had my analog Minolta DSRL a long time ago. Went digital with Canon s400 for 3 years now, later the S1 IS. I think my first digital DSLR could be the D40. I have made lots of photos, so I don't consider myself a total newbie. The fact that I visit this forum proves that too.

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stanginit
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Re: $600 D40 -vs- $650 Rebel XT
In reply to lukewarm, Nov 16, 2006

lukewarm wrote:

It's senseless. Photo enthusiasts would most likely be coming into
the dSLR market from their 7-MP and 10-MP point-n-shoots. How
unlikely is it for a newbie to eaglerly accept a megapixel
downgrade upon entering the more expensive dSLR world?

well then maybe your assumption of their "target demobraphics" is wrong ?
--
if the lens is round, why are the images square ?

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thomas2279
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Re: $600 D40 -vs- $650 Rebel XT
In reply to lukewarm, Nov 16, 2006

In the UK I cannot see Canon 20d for sale as it has been superseeded by 30d same as 350XT where it seems on the online stores that the old stock is being pushed out gradually and is replaced by 400xt.

The 400xt has now been reduced in price £450 including raw software and is quite a big difference compared to D80 £540 + Nx software £120.

So if I was starting again and on a limited budget of £1k I probably would get a Canon 400d + Ef s 18-55, 480Ex, 50 1.8 and 28-135 IS

However I must admit that owning the 30d and used the 350xt that it is quite an useable camera, ergonomics is fine with both cameras (not as good though as Nikon) and the low noise is great over D70s/D200 and has slight edge in my opinion over D50/D80.

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