Sigma 18-200 with Pentax K100D (shake reduction)

Started Oct 16, 2006 | Discussions
Christian1975
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Sigma 18-200 with Pentax K100D (shake reduction)
Oct 16, 2006

Hi Pentax-Community,

I am new to the digital SLR world and I am sure that you are proud that I chose the K100D togehter with the kit lense 18-55 as my first digital SLR equipment (have still an analogue Nikon F80 and a more compact superzoom Canon PowershotS2IS).

After having tested the camera with the kit lens I ordered the Sigma 18-200 zoom lens in order to have an all-in-one lens for travelling or for weekend activities with my family (had the similar 28-300 with my Nikon F80).

I was wondering about the Shake Reduction compatibility with the Sigma zoom lens. In the manual of the K100D is written that you need to set the focal length of the lens manually in the menu for the shake reduction if the lens is not 100% compatible, i.e. if the lense does not inform the body about the current focal length for the shot.

Is this a problem with the Sigma lense or does this lense behave exactly like the Pentax kit lense (18-55) and no manual settings are needed?

Thanks in advance for your helpful information and advices.

Regards,
Christian

P.S.: For high quality shots I am looking for 1 prime lens. I might buy the Pentax DA 40 2.8! I am an occasional photographer and in my opinion the Sigma zoom lens and the one prime lens will be enough for my needs. The kit lens will be obsolete IMHO. What do you think?

tc333
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Re: Sigma 18-200 with Pentax K100D (shake reduction)
In reply to Christian1975, Oct 16, 2006

No need to set it manually
--
Tony

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Roland Mabo
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Re: Sigma 18-200 with Pentax K100D (shake reduction)
In reply to Christian1975, Oct 16, 2006

The Sigma 18-200 is compatible with the Pentax KAF mount that was introduced in 1987 and all autofocus lenses compatible with this mount do send information about focal length to the camera. The multisegment metering, the flash and exposure functions needs this information, not just the shake reduction.

Take care
R

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Joe Barnhart
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Re: Sigma 18-200 with Pentax K100D (shake reduction)
In reply to Christian1975, Oct 16, 2006

There's no reason the Sigma won't work perfectly well with the K100D. I tried a Tamron 28-200 zoom while I was auditioning the K100D and it worked perfectly with shake reduction.

Let us know how you feel about the image quality of your Sigma vs. the kit lens after you've had both for awhile. The kit lens is an amazing bargain, sharp as a tack and only a little distortion. It's only real weakness is vignetting at the wide end, but that's usually correctable without too much trouble when it shows up.

Still, I like your idea of getting a prime. I'm leaning toward the DA 21 for my next acquisition. I must have LBA, tho, because I already have a selection of primes -- 14, 28, 50, 100, and 135. Can't be too rich, too thin, or have too many Pentax lenses, tho...

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Hythloday
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Re: Sigma 18-200 with Pentax K100D (shake reduction)
In reply to Christian1975, Oct 16, 2006

Christian1975 wrote:

Is this a problem with the Sigma lense or does this lense behave
exactly like the Pentax kit lense (18-55) and no manual settings
are needed?

Thanks in advance for your helpful information and advices.

I use a Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8-4.5 DC Macro lens on my Pentax K100D and there is absolutely no problem with the SR.

But the Pentax K100D does not recognise my Sigma 17-70mm lens, but thinks that it is a Sigma 18-50mm f/3.5-5.6 DC lens. When I use PTLens with the option "Detect Lens" enabled, PTlens gives an error message "cannot detect lens". When I disabled this option, I select the lens manually. Then I can remove the distortions.

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xand
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Re: Sigma 18-200 with Pentax K100D (shake reduction)
In reply to Christian1975, Oct 16, 2006

Christian1975 wrote:

P.S.: For high quality shots I am looking for 1 prime lens. I might
buy the Pentax DA 40 2.8! I am an occasional photographer and in my
opinion the Sigma zoom lens and the one prime lens will be enough
for my needs. The kit lens will be obsolete IMHO. What do you think?

50 f1.4

It's faster.

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Roland Mabo
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Re: Sigma 18-200 with Pentax K100D (shake reduction)
In reply to Hythloday, Oct 16, 2006

Hythloday wrote:

But the Pentax K100D does not recognise my Sigma 17-70mm lens, but
thinks that it is a Sigma 18-50mm f/3.5-5.6 DC lens.

No, the K100D doesn't think at all.

All lenses has an identification no (that's part of the Pentax KAF mount specification).

This information is not used by the K100D, but it is used by the Pentax PhotoBrowswer and PhotoLab converter. The number is checked against a lens database and then the lens name is displayed. Only Pentax lenses is in Pentax lens database.

Take care
R

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Hythloday
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Thanks
In reply to Roland Mabo, Oct 16, 2006

Roland Mabo wrote:

This information is not used by the K100D, but it is used by the
Pentax PhotoBrowswer and PhotoLab converter. The number is checked
against a lens database and then the lens name is displayed. Only
Pentax lenses is in Pentax lens database.

Thanks for this info. The lens number is 344 and Photoshop Elements 5.0 recognises it as the Sigma 18-50mm f/3.5-5.6 DC. It is no problem but it took me some hours to find out why PTLens did not recognise the lens.

I asked for Tom Niemann's support and he wrote me to disable the "Detect Lens" option. Now everything works fine.

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Roland Mabo
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Re: Thanks
In reply to Hythloday, Oct 16, 2006

I have no experience of Photoshop Elements 5, because the Mac version isn't released yet.

With the Pentax software, third party lenses are usually identified as '---' (nothing)... But some Sigma lenses has the same identification code as some Pentax lenses, so they are identified as Pentax.

Take care
R

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BrettRTurner
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Re: Sigma 18-200 with Pentax K100D (shake reduction)
In reply to Christian1975, Oct 16, 2006

Christian:

I'm in about the same place you were, upgrading from the S1 IS, probably to a K100D. The big issue at this point is the lens, deciding between a single vacation lens like the Sigma 18-200 vs. the kit lens and the Pentax 50-200. Cost is pretty close. Image quality I know will be better with 2 lenses, but that needs to be weighed against the convenience factor---my seven year old will not sit still while I fiddle with a lens change.

It would be really helpful to me, and I suspect a whole lot of other people in the same boat, if you or someone could take the same picture with the S2 IS, the Sigma 18-200 and perhaps the kit lens. I know that the order in terms of image quality would be kit lens > 18-200 > S2 IS. But the magnitude of the differences would be a very important factor in helping me decide whether the benefit of 2 lenses justifies the related hassle.

Thanks,

-- hide signature --

Brett Turner

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Christian1975
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Re: Sigma 18-200 with Pentax K100D (shake reduction)
In reply to BrettRTurner, Oct 17, 2006

Hi Brett,

as soon as my Sigma lens arrives I will try take some sample shots with the 3 configurations (Canon S3IS, K100D w/ Pentax 18-55 kit lens and w/ Sigma 18-200). I will try to do them with very similar settings (aperture, focal length, etc.) and with the standard in-camera-processing (jpg format, best quality).
I will share the results ASAP.

Ciao,
Christian

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xand
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Re: Sigma 18-200 with Pentax K100D (shake reduction)
In reply to Christian1975, Oct 17, 2006

Christian1975 wrote:

Hi Brett,

as soon as my Sigma lens arrives I will try take some sample shots
with the 3 configurations (Canon S3IS, K100D w/ Pentax 18-55 kit
lens and w/ Sigma 18-200). I will try to do them with very similar
settings (aperture, focal length, etc.) and with the standard
in-camera-processing (jpg format, best quality).
I will share the results ASAP.

Excellent. Tell me if you need webspace.

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Christian1975
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first tests
In reply to Christian1975, Oct 26, 2006

Dear Pentax-Community,

yesterday my new Sigma 18-200 arrived at home. I took it with me to work together with my Pentax K100D+kit lens (18-55) and my Canon Powershot S2IS.

At lunchtime I had the chance to have a walk in the park where I did my first test shots (all pics are jpgs from in-camera-processing with highest quality level).

1. "GOLDEN TREES": shortest focal length; aperture 8,0 (aperture priority):

1a) Canon (ISO50,8.0,1/80,6mm)

1b) K100D+Pentax18-55 (ISO200,8.0,1/180,18mm)

1c) K100D+Sigma18-200 (ISO200,8.0,1/250,18mm)

2. "GOLDEN TREES": longest focal length; aperture 8,0 (aperture priority):

2a) Canon (ISO50,8.0,1/160,72mm)

2b) K100D+Pentax18-55 (ISO200,8.0,1/350,55mm)

2c) K100D+Sigma18-200 (ISO200,8.0,1/500,200mm)

3. "GOLDEN LION": shortest focal length; biggest aperture (aperture priority):

3a) Canon (ISO50,2.7,1/640,6mm)

3b) K100D+Pentax18-55 (ISO200,4.0,1/1000,18mm)

3c) K100D+Sigma18-200 (ISO200,3.5,1/1000,18mm)

4. "GOLDEN LION": shortest focal length; smallest aperture (aperture priority):

4a) Canon (ISO50,8.0,1/80,6mm)

4b) K100D+Pentax18-55 (ISO200,22,1/30,18mm)

4c) K100D+Sigma18-200 (ISO400,22,1/45,18mm)

5. "GOLDEN LION": longest focal length; biggest aperture (aperture priority):

5a) Canon (ISO50,3.5,1/800,72mm)

5b) K100D+Pentax18-55 (ISO200,5.6,1/500,55mm)

5c) K100D+Sigma18-200 (ISO200,6.7,1/350,200mm)

What do you think?
Is it possible to see differences in image quality?

Would you prefer other settings, scenarios, etc. in order to judge the different qualities?

I am waiting for your comments,
Christian

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Christian1975
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Re: first tests
In reply to Christian1975, Oct 26, 2006

Some 100% crops:

1. Canon S2 IS @2.7,1/640,ISO50

2. Pentax K100D+Pentax18-55 @4,1/1000,ISO200

3. Pentax K100D+Sigma18-200 @3.5,1/1000,ISO200

Seems that especially the shot with the Pentax lens is quite out-of-focus.

IMHO the Canon produces great pics for its size at daylight. Still a great choice for a compact digital non-SLR cam.

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andrbar
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Re: first tests
In reply to Christian1975, Oct 26, 2006

Thanks Christian for your help : I'm sure a lot of guys are in the same boat. A K100D + a Sigma 18-200 is a perfect walkaround combo for those who don't want to carry a lot of stuff.
But what about AF speed and accuracy ? Could you tell us your feelings ?
Thanks for sharing your experience.
Regards
André

 andrbar's gear list:andrbar's gear list
Nikon Coolpix P7100 Nikon 1 V1 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 55-200mm f/4-5.6G VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm f/1.8G Nikon 1 Nikkor VR 10-30mm f/3.5-5.6 +3 more
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Undah
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Christian and andrbar,
In reply to Christian1975, Oct 26, 2006

Nice tests, well done. Only think I would add is DSLR pics will be at a disadvantage to prosumer directly from the camera, and require some processing, even if only a little Unsharp mask.

Andrbar,

The Sigma 18-200 on my DL focuses fast, and is refreshing compared to my FA 50/1.4, which seems to hesitate a bit before it starts. Accuracy is spot-on, except at full zoom though I suspect it's a combination of factors that includes slow shutter speed, since I have tack-sharp images at full zoom.

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BrettRTurner
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Re: first tests
In reply to Christian1975, Oct 26, 2006

Christian:

A fantastic test. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

The S2 is only 5MP, which needs to be factored into the results (the K100D is of course 6MP). Its focal length range per this site, 35mm equivalent, is 36-432mm. Since your stated focal lengths ranges from 6-72, it looks like we need to multiply focal lengths by 6 to compare apples to apples. 6-72 times 6 = 36-432 exactly.

You're right that the S2 doesn't immediately fall flat on its face when compared to a dSLR---a point for Canon. And it has a video mode better than most other digital cameras.

That having been said, I'm very struck by the color range on the K100D! On the first set of pictures, look at the little red tree just to the right of the tree on the far left. On the S2 pic, I wouldn't notice it unless I was looking for it. It's quite visible on both K100d pictures. Exposure time was longer on the S2 (1/80 vs. 1/180) with the same aperture, so there was more light coming into the S2, but more light made in into the picture for the K100D. That's the better sensor at work, right?

Although, the S2 was at ISO50. It would have picked up a lot more light at ISO200---but also a lot more noise.

The 100% crop at 18mm does look a bit out of focus for the K100D. It would be interesting to see 100% crops at 18mm for the 18-200 and the 18-55 with both pictures in good focus. I hear really bad things about the 18-200 at 18mm, but I don't really see a difference vs. the 18-55 in your pictures---but maybe I just don't know where to look.

The max-focus tests are hard to compare because they're at different lengths. It would be interesting to see a set at more equal lengths. 200mm for the 18-200 times 1.5 for the K100D's sensor = 300mm. 300mm for the S2, divided apparently by 6, would be 50mm, a little more than half way zoomed---though the S2 probably doesn't have zoom markings. Anyway, a set with the 18-200 at 200mm and the S2 somewhere around 50mm should be more or less equivalent.

Overall, the colors on the K100D, especially in the first set, leave me seeing a real advantage to the K100D, even in a situation (lots of light) in which the two cameras are most equal.

Thank you again for these pictures. This has been SO helpful in comparing these cameras!

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Brett Turner

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BrettRTurner
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Re: first tests
In reply to BrettRTurner, Oct 26, 2006

Another quick point. I have heard it said in this forum that attaching an 18-200 to a K100D is paying $350 to convert a $600 dSLR into a $400 superzoom point and shoot.

These pictures, taken under conditions which generally favor the S2 (bright light), show that this isn't true. There is a clear difference to my eye, brighter colors at a faster shutter speed, between the first K100D picture and the first S2 picture.

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Brett Turner

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xand
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Re: first tests
In reply to BrettRTurner, Oct 27, 2006

BrettRTurner wrote:

Another quick point. I have heard it said in this forum that
attaching an 18-200 to a K100D is paying $350 to convert a $600
dSLR into a $400 superzoom point and shoot.

I think they don't mean that literally - only optically

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Christian1975
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Prime Lens
In reply to Undah, Oct 27, 2006

Thanks for your first comments,

I will add some more demo/comparison pics with the 3 configurations after playing aound with the new lens this weekend.

I still like to add one high quality prime lens to my equipment. If you had the possibility to choose one of the following prime lenses which one would you buy:

  • Pentax DFA 50 2,8 Macro

  • Pentax DA 40 2,8 Ltd.

  • Sigma 50 2,8 EX Macro

  • Sigma 28 1,8 EX

I know that there are differences in focal length, but which one would be the best allround lens in your opinion? Are the 50mm too long?

I would use for high quality shots for special situations (great landscapes, portraits, etc.) whereas my Sigma 18-200 will be my every day lens.

The macro lenses could be more interesting for my wife since she really likes to take detail pics of her garden.

If I took a 50mm macro lens, would there be any disadvantage for standard pics such as family, landscapes, architecture compared to a 50mm non-macro lens? Or is the macro feature just a neat extra that enriches the possibilities of the lens.

Sorry for these newbie-questions...

Regards,
Christian

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