DCS 760 internal battery is dead

Started Apr 11, 2006 | Discussions
Sam Carleton
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DCS 760 internal battery is dead
Apr 11, 2006

I have a opertunity to pick up a DCS 760 for a good price, the only real issue is that the internal battery is dead. At the present, I have a Nikon D2H and with the D2H the internal battery is in an inner compartment of the big batter and simple to change. Is this the case with the DCS 760 or does the DCS 760 require one to send it in to be replaced?

Sam

Sam Carleton
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More info...
In reply to Sam Carleton, Apr 11, 2006

I just looked through the users manual for the camera to find the answer and found this:

"There is a small rechargeable battery in the camera which can lose its charge if you remove the main battery for a long period of time. When you insert the main battery, the small battery is recharged, but you need to reset the date and time."

Does anyone know if this small battery can simply die on you? If so, can it be easily replaced?

Sam

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Quentin (UK)
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Re: More info...
In reply to Sam Carleton, Apr 11, 2006

My 760 internal battery is OK, but I understand it is soldered on to the board, and it needs an expereinced tech to replace. Try leaving a fullly charged battery in the camera for a day, it might recharge the internal battery. They can just die. Its annoying but won't affect the performance of the camera.

Quentin

Sam Carleton wrote:

I just looked through the users manual for the camera to find the
answer and found this:

"There is a small rechargeable battery in the camera which can lose
its charge if you remove the main battery for a long period of
time. When you insert the main battery, the small battery is
recharged, but you need to reset the date and time."

Does anyone know if this small battery can simply die on you? If
so, can it be easily replaced?

Sam

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andrew kalman
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Re: More info...
In reply to Quentin (UK), Apr 12, 2006

Quentin (UK) wrote:

My 760 internal battery is OK, but I understand it is soldered on
to the board, and it needs an expereinced tech to replace. Try
leaving a fullly charged battery in the camera for a day, it might
recharge the internal battery. They can just die. Its annoying but
won't affect the performance of the camera.

Leaving a charged main battery in it with a discharged internal battery only leads to the accelerated draining of the main battery.

Plug it into the AC adapter for a day or two and it might improve the internal battery.

Some day I will do a writeup on how to change / replace the internal battery ...

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Andrew

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Kirk Tuck
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Re: More info...
In reply to andrew kalman, Apr 12, 2006

Dear Andrew, Please write it up soon. Thanks, Kirk
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Quentin (UK)
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Re: More info...
In reply to andrew kalman, Apr 12, 2006

andrew kalman wrote:

Quentin (UK) wrote:

My 760 internal battery is OK, but I understand it is soldered on
to the board, and it needs an expereinced tech to replace. Try
leaving a fullly charged battery in the camera for a day, it might
recharge the internal battery. They can just die. Its annoying but
won't affect the performance of the camera.

Leaving a charged main battery in it with a discharged internal
battery only leads to the accelerated draining of the main battery.

Then just recharge the main battery...if there is a problem with the internal battery that prevents it from charging, plugging the camera in to the mains won't make any difference.

My internal battery is fine (at the moment) and I don't use the mains adaptor

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Andrew

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andrew kalman
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Re: More info...
In reply to Quentin (UK), Apr 12, 2006

Re:

Quentin (UK) wrote:

andrew kalman wrote:

Leaving a charged main battery in it with a discharged internal
battery only leads to the accelerated draining of the main battery.

Then just recharge the main battery...if there is a problem with
the internal battery that prevents it from charging, plugging the
camera in to the mains won't make any difference.

My internal battery is fine (at the moment) and I don't use the
mains adaptor

As long as your internal battery is (still) fine, you won't notice any issues.

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Andrew

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SeanS
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Re: More info...
In reply to andrew kalman, Apr 13, 2006

My internal battery has been flat for some time and none of the above seems to be able to restore it. It just means I have to set time and date on startup , but if I don't and ignore the request that comes up on start up, the camera still works fine ( very very well in fact).

It is an expensive operation to get it changed, and if you leave the main batteries in the camera then you run the risk of flattening them so much they won't recharge as the voltage in them drops so low they won't work in the charger.

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John W.
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Re: More info...
In reply to SeanS, Apr 13, 2006

SeanS wrote:
flattening them so much they won't recharge as the voltage in them
drops so low they won't work in the charger.

If this happens use the old 9v battery trick !! it works !

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Mig
Mig
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Here is what I am doing
In reply to Sam Carleton, Apr 23, 2006

My DCS 760 internal battery is also dead. Having cracked open a few DSLRs in my days I decided to take the screw driver to the DCS 760. One needs to take the back off the camera. This entails the side screws, the top of the bottom screws and all of the screws holding the back down. Once this is done you will have to disconnect the wiring, it is fairly straight forward, one plug and a couple of flat cables, these go into sliders. No need to lable b/c they can really only go in one place. Once this is done, remove the plate that hold the connectors on the right side in place. It is fairly easy and just needs delicate wiggling.

Once the back is off you will see the little sell. This is the point I am at. I ordered the battery from Mouser Electronics for $4.44 (other places are more) plus shipping. The battery is a Panasoic CL1220-1VC (VC is crucial b/c it means verticle mount rathar than horizontal) - Mouser part # 658-VL1220-1VC, Panasonic Part # VL1220-1vc. The battery is located on the lower board and is soldered in place. You will see two boards, upper and lower. I will have a micro-electrician friend do the work from here. Two solder joints, one for the plus the other for the minus. Should take at most 1/2 hour of time for this work. After that, reassamble and charge. Should be good for another 5-10 years.

Couple of added comments. Opening the camera back is easy, just use a styrofoam board to put the screws in or tape them to a piece of paper with a diagram of where they came from. Certain screws are longer than others for a reason. Also, opening the back DOES NOT expose the sensor - it just allows access to the memory board and back panel stuff.

I am wondering if I can upgrade my buffer - looks like the included buffer is a larger version, only taller, of old laptop memory, the pin layout is identical as is the mount.

Could I put a 512k board in or will the camera's bios not recongnize the larger size? Seems like an easy, cheap upgrade. The buffer is literally the same, only taller top to bottom. The buffer memory is made by Kingston.

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andrew kalman
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Re: Here is what I am doing
In reply to Mig, Apr 24, 2006

Great -- that will save me a lot of work.

Digi-Key ( http://www.digi-key.com ) also carries that battery.

It's a rechargeable lithium battery. Since it's rechargeable, I wonder why they're dying ...

Panansonic data on the battery:

http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Panasonic/Web%20data/VL%20Series.pdf

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Sam Carleton
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Re: Here is what I am doing
In reply to andrew kalman, Apr 24, 2006

They are dieing because all batteries, including recharable ones have a life span and at the end of it, they die;)
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andrew kalman
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Re: Here is what I am doing
In reply to Sam Carleton, Apr 24, 2006

Sam Carleton wrote:

They are dieing because all batteries, including recharable ones
have a life span and at the end of it, they die;)

True, but Li batteries usually have a 10-year lifespan, and I doubt any of the DCS7xx cameras I own have seen 1,000 charge/discharge cycles. And none of them are 10 years old -- most of mine are 3-4 years old (from time of purchase, new)..

When I replace my batteries I'll figure out how they implemented the charger circuitry and comment on it ...

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Ken Phillips
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Ten year lifespan ...
In reply to andrew kalman, Apr 25, 2006

... is an utter myth, perpetrated by the manufacturers of laptop batteries! After some number of cycles, they stop working. I've had ten laptops, and although I usually only keep them a couple of years, more than half of them required replacement batteries.
Ken

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andrew kalman
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Re: Ten year lifespan ...
In reply to Ken Phillips, Apr 25, 2006

Ken Phillips wrote:

... is an utter myth, perpetrated by the manufacturers of laptop
batteries! After some number of cycles, they stop working. I've had
ten laptops, and although I usually only keep them a couple of
years, more than half of them required replacement batteries.

10 years for Lithium batteries (non-rechargeable ones) is entirely reasonable. I've seen lots of Panasonics 2/3AA-sized Lithium batteries last past 10 years when used as static RAM backup batteries.

Lithium-based rechargeable batteries only came into wide usage in laptops in the last few (two? three?) years -- before that it was NiCd and NiMH. Same goes for DSLRs. So your experience is likely to have had very little exposure to Lithium-based batteries.

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Andrew

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Ken Phillips
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Check your timeline!
In reply to andrew kalman, Apr 25, 2006

I have a six-year-old laptop with a lithium-ion battery! (A BAD one, BTW.)
Ken

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Weegee
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Thanks for the heads up MIG
In reply to Mig, Apr 27, 2006

I too have a dead battery ( for about 2 years) and so far had found no problems, until recently. If you use Photoshop CS2, you cannot open the Kodak TIF files unless you set the date exactly or earlier! I had mine set accidentally to 2095 AD and could not open the Kodak TIF files. Now I set the time to 2005 and all is OK.

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Mig
Mig
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Repair complete
In reply to Weegee, Apr 28, 2006

Battery came yesterday and I brought it to my friend. He was not home and my kids were watching TV. What the heck - when all others fail, do it myself.

Took the camera apart again, removed the back board and then two screws to seperate the board where the battery and case were joined. Board came right up and I had access to the two solder joints. Because the manner the battery is mounted, I had to cut one leg of the battery off b/4 removing the old battery. It is soldered in two spots and one can not pull the battery off w/o soldering both spots at the same time. Cutting the leg of one allowed me to pull each seperately. Battery and cut leg came off w/o a problem once each was heated independantly. If you want to do it be careful not to heat the board up too long. Work quick. If it is not coming off stop and inspect why and let cool.

Once off I cleaned the holes up and stuck the new battery in. Soldered one side and pushed the leg in. Then the other side. I slowly did each side alternating and pushing the legs until I got it all the way down. Being mindful to let it cool a bit before soldering other side. Trimmed off the excess and done. If I had done a better job cleaing the holes this would not have been a problem. Just stick in and solder. Electronics is not my trade and I didn't have a solder removal tool.

Once completed I checked everything for dust, rear LCD mainly, and put the camera back together. All said, less than 1 hour. Tools required, small wire cutter (to clip battery)(pointed nail clipper would work very well), small philips screw driver to open back of camera and remove board, and soldering iron. I ground my tip down to a nice point and used a 40w iron. Make sure it is fully heated before starting.

If you are not careful you can burn other parts through heat transfer or if you are sloppy touching them.

Turned camera on, set date and time, and then let it charge.

No problems.

If you order the battery and are afraid to do it, I am sure you can find a shop to do it start to finish for less then $100.00. If you bring just the back in with the board still attached then 1/2 this price. All they would need to do is remove two to five screws, depending on where you left it, and then do the battery.

One other note to pay attention to - the plug in connectors in the battery compartment has a seperate metal piece. This piece should be fitted BEFORE mounting the board. Line up the board and then put it in. A little looking and wiggling is all it takes. If you do not do it at this point it is more of a force job later. Force bad, unless you are in Starwars.

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andrew kalman
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Re: Repair complete
In reply to Mig, Sep 6, 2006

Some additional info:

1) 17 screws need to be removed in order to take the back off.

2) Also, you have to disconnect flat ribbon cables and 1 2-wire (red & black) power connector. These are all on the side of the palm swell.

3) The memory in the socket J3 appears to be a 144-pin SODIMM package. The carrier is unusually large, with room for 16 chips but populated with only 8. The Chips are made by Infineon, HYB39S256800CT-7.5, which means that they are 3.3V, SDRAM, 256Mbit per chip, x8 architecture, standard product, Die Revision C, TSOP 400 mil (contains lead), PC133 3-3-3. Since there are 8 chips per socket, I think this means that we are dealing with 8 * 256Mbit / (8 bits per byte) = 256MB of PC133 non-ECC CL3 low-profile SODIMM. So I also think that one ought to be able to replace this module with a 512MB module, but I have no idea if the architecture would recognize the larger installed RAM and make use of it.

4) You must pretty much disassemble the entire back "plate" in order to be in a position to replace the battery. There is some extra room near the battery (a few mm), so one could conceivably fit a larger battery. There is also tons of unused room in the body itself (above the battery, in an area that measures 9 x 2 x 3 mm, so one could conceivably "remote mount" a larger clock battery in that space. It would also make future battery replacements much simpler.

5) The FireWire and Power connectors can also be accessed once the back is disassembled. They tend to break if abused.

6) All of the Kodak electroics is in two areas -- in the back (two main PCBs interconnected via a very wide ribbon cable) and where another where film would normally go.

I can see why Kodak charges quite a bit to service these -- there is a fair amount of labor involved (and the probability of breaking stuff as well).

I'll report back after I have changed the battery -- this was just "exploratory surgery"

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Andrew

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andrew kalman
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Re: Repair complete
In reply to andrew kalman, Sep 7, 2006

And a few more comments:

1) The SODIMM is easily accessible once the rear plate has been removed. No need to remove any of the PCBs on the rear plate.

2) The battery is constrained up/down and front/back (relative the the camera) in a nice aluminum "trough" / channel. However, it does not appear to be mechanically constrained in the direction that you install it. It basically rests against a small PCB that's held to the rear plate with 2 small screws, and hols the battery connector. IOW if you jame / force the battery in, you run the risk of breaking this plate. Once broken, I think it's nlikely any of that can be fixed. So be careful and never force the battery into place.

3) Unlike the "Nikon body parts" in the camera (basically an F5 except for the rear), the "Kodak body parts" are not very well weather-sealed. I.e. there is no rubber or elastomeric sealing of the rear plate against the rest of the body. Nor is there one for the palm swell. So don;t get any moisture, etc. near the rear plate's edges or you could be in big trouble.

4) The various PCBs that are attached to the rear plate are interconnected via embedded Flexible Printed Circuits (FPC's). I.e. there are no connectors -- they are permanently connected to one another. If you damage any one of the PCbs or connectors the whole think is likely junk. So be careful ...

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Andrew

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