Call this a troll if you will

Started Aug 27, 2005 | Discussions
Mike Johnston
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Call this a troll if you will
Aug 27, 2005

Call this a troll if you will, but frankly the posted Canon 5D samples don't look all that good to me. Dynamic range appears to be even slightly worse than most average DSLRs, which aren't great to begin with, and there is clearly a reduction of image quality out towards the corneds if you look at the full files. Granted, it's not entirely fair to judge a camera from minimally processed pre-production samples. But based on these samples and some of the work I've seen from the other Canon full-frame models, there appears to be at least a minor price you have to pay for full-frame.

Ken Phillips
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How can you tell the DR of the scene ...
In reply to Mike Johnston, Aug 27, 2005

... from an image? You're one up on me!
Ken

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Mike Johnston
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Re: How can you tell the DR of the scene ...
In reply to Ken Phillips, Aug 28, 2005

Ken Phillips wrote:

... from an image? You're one up on me!

Because I've been a professional photographer for twenty-five years. I can photograph without a light meter with a film camera. Daylight is not as variable as most amateurs assume it is.

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jhsu
Regular MemberPosts: 366
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not troll, just uninformed
In reply to Mike Johnston, Aug 28, 2005

yeah, what was the dynamic range supposed to be that day? you were there?

hard to accuse a camera of low dynamic range if you're looking at jpegs. and with nothing else to compare to. and especially if not shot with standardized methods meant to test dynamic range.

and, if you are expecting cameras that are full-frame and image quality equally perfect from center to corners in any focal length, you could be expectant for a long, long time. no camera can do that: not canon, not nikon (nikon's corporate policy as it stands right now for this issue is to just crop out the corners, no choice for you, end of story). and that corner performance is as much a function of the lens and the particular focal length, if not more, anyway.

the point is, you have a choice to use the whole image with every shot, instead of having forced crops done for you by your sensor.

can't quite call you a troll because there's a chance you really, honestly might not know what you are talking about.

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Steven
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Re: Call this a troll if you will
In reply to Mike Johnston, Aug 28, 2005

How about a troll and a wannabe
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Attu
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Have you read this ?
In reply to Steven, Aug 28, 2005
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John Davis
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Re: no troll... but perhaps jumping the gun...
In reply to Mike Johnston, Aug 28, 2005

If anything... I thought the camera handled DR very well. DR in in a digital sensor (like in a chrome) must be handled very, very carefully by the photographer (not the same as in B&W - your main experience, I suppose).

Phil made a few snaps that overall showed a very well performing pre-production camera.

Just my 0.02.

John

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jhsu
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that's even more inexcusable, then....
In reply to Mike Johnston, Aug 28, 2005

that you are a claimed "25-year professional" and you find it OK to comment on dynamic range, looking at jpegs shot under uncontrolled/unknown situations?

sunlight is less variable? in what latitude, what altitude, and what time of day?

you don't find that variable, hmm....never seen the sun in LA when there's smog overhead....or sun in San Francisco....sunlight is the same to you always.

you must have divine control of nature, or you've never traveled much.

I hope that's your real name, because if I need a professional to shoot my next outdoor event, I'll be sure to find someone who knows photography....or at least knows his limitations.

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PalmsWestPhoto
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agree
In reply to jhsu, Aug 28, 2005

either he is simply trolling or he has no understanding of dynamic range

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Michael Salzlechner
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dkord
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Re: Call this a troll if you will
In reply to Mike Johnston, Aug 28, 2005

Mike Johnston wrote:

Call this a troll if you will, but frankly the posted Canon 5D
samples don't look all that good to me. Dynamic range appears to be
even slightly worse than most average DSLRs, which aren't great to
begin with, and there is clearly a reduction of image quality out
towards the corneds if you look at the full files. Granted, it's
not entirely fair to judge a camera from minimally processed
pre-production samples. But based on these samples and some of the
work I've seen from the other Canon full-frame models, there
appears to be at least a minor price you have to pay for full-frame.

OK, which samples?

How can you, as a writter, wanting to be taken seriously and professionally come to such a forgone conclusion on a "draft"?

Since when has any of Canon's preproduction samples on their DSLRs been any good? You've been around for a while now, you should know that.

Prejudging DR on "beta" equiptment and firmware invalidates a lot of your future articles to me because this might be your MO and those basic bias and mindset will show as you write them.

Most people don't own a 12-24 or a 10-22 for their APS sensors or want to buy one. Some might want to shoot with a 20mm prime they already have in their bag. The point is your 20mm doesn't crop like a 30mm now does it? If the edges are still soft, you can crop those edges and it will still be wider than a 30.

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DD22
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OK, it's a troll, Mike
In reply to Mike Johnston, Aug 28, 2005

Mike Johnston wrote:

Granted, it's not entirely fair to judge a camera from minimally processed
pre-production samples.

No Kidding? It's not fair at all, but you don't let that stop you. Can you stop back later and tell us how many clicks to your book sales site it generates?

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wtlloyd
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Re: Call this a troll if you will
In reply to Mike Johnston, Aug 28, 2005

Boy, that didn't go over too well, eh, Mike?

More fodder for the 7th frame, I'd guess....

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DD22
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Good grief, this can't be the real MJ
In reply to Mike Johnston, Aug 28, 2005

Mike Johnston wrote:

Ken Phillips wrote:

... from an image? You're one up on me!

Because I've been a professional photographer for twenty-five
years. I can photograph without a light meter with a film camera.
Daylight is not as variable as most amateurs assume it is.

All you going to do is stonewall when someone asks a legitimate question? You started the thread with remark that makes you look somewhat foolish, and now you are setting out to prove that you are?

Honest, this can't be the real Mike Johnston, can it? You sound even more like Ken Rockwell now.

Ken, is that you???

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dmanthree
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Re: Call this a troll if you will
In reply to Mike Johnston, Aug 28, 2005

You're going to judge the performance of a pre-production unit based on a few samples taken under non-controlled conditions? With no basis for comparison (like the same shots taken side by side with a 20D)? With no in-depth testing? Without testing for yourself?

Man, I know you have tons of experience, but I can't agree with this assessment.

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Tristan Cope
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Do we have to go through this again?
In reply to Mike Johnston, Aug 28, 2005

Discussed already in great detail:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=14780480

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=14803197

Surely it can't be necessary to keep rehashing this faulty analysis of dynamic range every 12 hours?

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JohnnyMnemonic
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Shame on you...
In reply to Mike Johnston, Aug 28, 2005

Shame on you for Pixel Peeping a pre-production camera.

What ever would MR think....

Mike Johnston wrote:

Call this a troll if you will, but frankly the posted Canon 5D
samples don't look all that good to me. Dynamic range appears to be
even slightly worse than most average DSLRs, which aren't great to
begin with, and there is clearly a reduction of image quality out
towards the corneds if you look at the full files. Granted, it's
not entirely fair to judge a camera from minimally processed
pre-production samples. But based on these samples and some of the
work I've seen from the other Canon full-frame models, there
appears to be at least a minor price you have to pay for full-frame.

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Steven
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Re: Shame on you...
In reply to JohnnyMnemonic, Aug 28, 2005

.....and you have not?

JohnnyMnemonic wrote:
Shame on you for Pixel Peeping a pre-production camera.

What ever would MR think....

Mike Johnston wrote:

Call this a troll if you will, but frankly the posted Canon 5D
samples don't look all that good to me. Dynamic range appears to be
even slightly worse than most average DSLRs, which aren't great to
begin with, and there is clearly a reduction of image quality out
towards the corneds if you look at the full files. Granted, it's
not entirely fair to judge a camera from minimally processed
pre-production samples. But based on these samples and some of the
work I've seen from the other Canon full-frame models, there
appears to be at least a minor price you have to pay for full-frame.

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Steve

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RiverSide Photography
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Re: Call this a troll if you will
In reply to Mike Johnston, Aug 28, 2005

yes the images don't exhibit stellar DR, but i'm surprised you with so much experience can't see that's how the photographer chose to expose the scene.. show me a camera (your newly acquired softer-than-a-baby's- bottom-KM7D included) that could do better in those conditions?

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Steven
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Re: Call this a troll if you will
In reply to Mike Johnston, Aug 28, 2005

All my joking aside. I now remember who you are Mike. I read some of your stories about pixel peeping on LL. I am very surprized you made this statement with a beta camera and so many variables. Read Phils post about DR on the 5D.
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Steve

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Grant Y
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Re: Call this a troll if you will
In reply to Mike Johnston, Aug 28, 2005

Call this a troll if you will, but frankly the posted Canon 5D
samples don't look all that good to me.

I'd never call you a troll.

But it's clear you have a serious "premature evaluation" problem, which you might want to deal with.

What do you expect. You have a few shots, processed in relatively uncontrolled ways, with a beta version of software. It's a bit a quick to turn yourself into a CNN talking head, don't you think?
---------------
Grant

If it's TRUTH you're after ..
.. read the multiplication table.

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