Fast lenses, and High ISO

Started 4 months ago | Discussions thread
EinsteinsGhost
Forum ProPosts: 11,903Gear list
Like?
Re: Why worship exposure?
In reply to Lee Jay, 4 months ago

Lee Jay wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

Lee Jay wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Albert Silver wrote:

tko wrote:

Remember that F4.0 is considered kind of slow on FF, but is equal to F2.0 on M43rds, which is considered "fast."

That's not entirely accurate. You are describing the depth of field equivalence, from one sensor to the next, not the light. f/2 on a m43rds may have the depth of field of f/4 on a full-frame, but the light will still be f/2.

The 'light' of a FF f/2 and a FT f/4 will be the same, which is the point he is making. In the end, given equally efficient sensors, you can achieve the same result at the same shutter speed using an f/4 on FF as you can on FT. The density of the light of the f/4 is one quarter but there is a sensor four times the area to collect it, so it ends up the same.

-- hide signature --

Bob

The point tko is making is wrong. DOF equivalence applies, exposure equivalence does not (for the reason you state above).

Whether the point tko is making is wrong or not depends entirely on what you think is the definition of 'fast'. If you think that 'fast' is to do with exposure when comparing between formats, then he is wrong. However, that's not a very sensible point of view, so if you assume that he thinks that 'fast' means 'puts more light on the sensor' then he is right.

Fast has only one meaning: Shutter Speed, as in exposure time, the time value part of exposure. And that makes you just as much wrong as tko.

Photographic exposure is independent of media size.

The fastest speed at which I can set my shutter speed is limited by the amount of noise I'll accept in the final image.

In other words, you don't understand what exposure entails.

You really learned nothing from this?

I have, that some of you are pretty good actors.

Exposure is illuminance-time product, by definition. Illuminance is controlled by f-stop, and time is controlled by shutter speed. ISO has nothing to do with it.

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/consumer/products/techInfo/aa9/aa9.shtml

"Exposure
The quantity of light allowed to act on a photographic material; product of the intensity (controlled by the lens opening) and the duration (controlled by the shutter speed or enlarging time) of light striking the film or paper."

http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam/User-Guide/4500/EXPOSURE/EV-overview.html

Exposure Value = log2(aperture^2/shutter speed)

Seems like you've been worshipping exposure enough to dwell deeply on it (unless you're simply googling and posting links).

Or, are you completely atheistic to what you just presented above?

The noise is driven by two things - the technology used in the sensor and the rest of the camera pipeline, and the TOTAL amount of light that falls of the sensor.

It makes no difference if that light is thinly spread out (slow f-stop, large sensor) or concentrated down (fast f-stop, small sensor). This is why f-stop equivalence holds across sensor sizes and why, say, ISO 400 and f/2 on 4/3 is equivalent to ISO 1600 and f/4 on full frame - they both produce the same image with the same noise from the same shutter speed given the same technology.

Read it again, as it seemed to go right over your head.

Hint: Do you really think you can get faster shutter speeds with my f/2.6 cell phone than with my f/4 full-frame? For acceptable noise, I have to expose the cell phone at a maximum exposure index of 200, while I can accept and EI of 12,800 for the full-frame. That's why the full-frame is faster at f/4 than the cell phone is at f/2.6.

-- hide signature --

Lee Jay

 EinsteinsGhost's gear list:EinsteinsGhost's gear list
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-F828 Sony SLT-A55 Sony Alpha NEX-6 Sigma 18-250mm F3.5-6.3 DC OS HSM Sony 135mm F2.8 (T4.5) STF +12 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Post (hide subjects)Posted by
(unknown member)
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum PPrevious NNext WNext unread UUpvote SSubscribe RReply QQuote BBookmark post MMy threads
Color scheme? Blue / Yellow