A few snaps with Sony FE 70-200mm f4 and a6000

Started 3 months ago | Discussions thread
nevercat
Senior MemberPosts: 2,333
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Re: Why...
In reply to Jorginho, 3 months ago

Jorginho wrote:

nevercat wrote:

Jorginho wrote:

123Mike wrote:

Jorginho wrote:

The higher image quality is a combination of shoots that are in focus, plus the glass used plus the sensor used. When we look at DxO lens scores we see that native lenses of mFTs with the best sensors produce better results than any NEX with its best glass.

OK let's accept this challenge:

I looked at DXO at the next lenses: Sony: 50mm f1.8 APS lens ($300) 35mm f 1.8 OSS ($400)
And for mft: the Panasonic/Leica: Summilux 25mm f1.4 ($600)

You can see I did not pick the (better) Zeiss lenses...

Now we can look at the differences in the DXO scores:
Sony 50mm: Sharpness: 13 MP, Distortion: 0%, vignetting: -1.6, CA:2 um
Sony 35mm: Sharpness: 11 MP, distortion: 0,7%, vignetting: -1.8, CA: 6 um
Pana 25mm: Sharpness: 11 MP, distortion: 1.6%, vignetting: -1.2, CA: 14 um

To this I selected the Sony Nex 7 camera ($725) and the Olympus OM-D M1($1399) Again you see the MFT is NOT better, even when you go for a more expensive camera and lens.

When you look for the FF E-mount camera with the Zeiss 55mm lens the scores are like this:
Sony 55mm: Sharpness: 29 MP, Distortion: 0.4%, vignetting: -1.6, CA:9 um

There are two parts where the Panasonic lens is better: Apperture and vignetting. The equivalent apperture is about the same (f2.8 for the Panasonic and f2.7 for the Sony)...

I looked at the total scores and they were clear. But let's not get into this as this was not the point. If Sony has somewhat better IQ I'm fine with that. And if "somewhat" for one means "significant" to others, fine. I don't think it was one of OP points.

Looking at the total scores tells only one part of the story. DXO gives higher scores to faster lenses, but that does not tell you that the lens is actualy sharper, or will offer better CA, or will show better color, or better contrast, or better bokeh etc..... That is why I showed the parts, and that shows that the total IQ of these lenses are very close. To get this close you  have to buy a camera that is over $650 more expensive and a lens that is $200,-- more expensive. In the end you get about the same IQ out of them. And when price is no part of it the Sony A7r with the Zeiss 55mm1.8 is the real winner, overall and in the parts!

I find it odd that we're seeing so many people trying to inject GH4 and XT1 into the E-mount forum. It's only showing that as an overall package, that the A6000 is a clear winner.

You state something as facts where it is an opinion. I have never said the GH4 is better. GH4 does things better than the NEX, like shooting video, like being more rugged (weathersealed) etc. That makes it a better deal for those who value that. It does not make it a better cam and of course the same is true for A6000.

I think it is silly to say that one camera is better over an other camera when the differences are that great. When comparing still IQ the Sony is the winner at the moment, video IQ goes to the Panasonic. Build quality is for Panasonic, size goes to Sony. Price is for Sony, controls on camera is for Panasonic. So it all dependcs on what you find important, what camera is best for you.

Agreed. I think it is not silly, just people tend to think that their needs are universal so their assessment is too.

The reason I used the word silly is that there are a lot of people buying these two cameras, both for their strong points.

No one ventured here shwoing off the GH4. Someone came in with A6000 and GH4 and seems to like the GH4 more. Then an argument starts as to why anyone would chose that cam over the GH4, It is only logical that someone who made that choice tries to explain. It seems quite a few over here have difficulty with that and somewhat large toes. Personally I have said zero negative words about the A6000, yet it is too much it seems...

The only thing that makes me wonder is why a person like you, who has no Sony camera (according to your gearlist) and is raving about his non Sony camera in a Sony forum. Then you claim that you said zerro negative words about the A6000 but when I read your post you clearly say that mft cameras produce better results then Sony cameras According to DXO (a statement I disprooved above) this is a negative word about the A6000 asit is a Sony camera and it is not true.

Fine you do not understand it. I don't find saying the A6000 has worse IQ when lenses are attached negative. That is a fact according to DxO.

Well as showed above, that is not a fact. Fact is that the Sony A7r equipted with the 55mm f1.8 native lens Scores way better then your Olympus camera with Panasonic/Leica lens. That is the fact! And the cheaper lens/camera combination( by $850) scores nearly as good (only scores better at apperture and vignetting) as the more expensive combination. When compared to the GH4 we don't know yet as DXO did not test their lenses on that camera...

How you perceive that is up to you. it is what we see at DxO tests, for WIW.

What we see at DXO are numbers, and those numbers are very close, only the price is not. What you see in real life pictures even at pixel level will not be different (and what is different is the distortion and the CA, both worse for the Panasonic/Leica lens)

If I would say that Sony is bad at this and that and another cam is (soo much) better that would change the picture. Right now I am being factual i think. besides: how am I supposed to respond when someone says the Sony has better IQ? I think I can politely differ.

Better IQ depends on many factors, from the lens, the sensor and the processing. What camera delevers the best IQ is very personal. One person wants very sharp pictures. An other person wants pictures without any CA, an other person want distortion free pictures, or want the colors to be a bid warmer or cooler etc. That is why I think that comparing lenses or cameras on the total end score is not the best you can do. You have to read all the details to know what is best for you.

To say that one (modern mirrorless)  camera delivers better IQ then an other camera is not right from that point of view, as differences are very small and when you want more details, a camera with a large sensor with many MP will be better for you, if you want better high ISO a camera with less MP but a large sensor will be better for you. When you want a very good Video output then your best choice probably is the GH4.

You could have a RX100 and not need anything any A6000 or GX7 offers and repsond in this way. Is the point that you wnat to understand someone else or only want to say that you do not need it?

There is a whole lot of distortions and weaseling around, but it's not from the Sony proponents.

No of course it are "the others"...Some over here simply says because he does not value the extra's on a cam they are of no value to anyone. it is not a real question he asks, because when someone indicates what the differences are and that others DO value them, he notes they are of no use to him.

Come on, people are all forgetting that all modern mirrorless cameras are taking stunning pictures, that the lenses are from acceptable, to great for all brands. We should take more time helping each other to get the best out ourt cameras then looking at the minor differences...

We should nothing. This is a forum, we can discuss (politely) whatever we feel personally worth to discuss. If it is not interesting either you will not respond or no one will if it is really boring

I'm not saying that we should NOT discuss these kind of things, but we should use more of the time to help people, I don't think telling people that camera 1 is better overall then camera 2 is realy helping especialy when based on personal feelings about a camera system.

I can see why people buy a A6000 over a GH4. I can see why people buy Gh4 over A6000. They are clearly different and some aspects are more appealing to one and other aspects to others...

And that is the wisest thing you said in this thread (many things you said are wise, but this is the wisest!)

Thx for the compliment! I like it when we can keep things pilote and peacefull and still have the space to strongly disagree or inspite of strong disagreemnt. Thx for that!

Your welcome! I learn more from people I disagree with then from people I  agree with, so when things look a bit hard some times, I think it can help the people on this forum to understand there are more then one way to look at things...

I will stop this discussion from my side here and want to thank you for your input!

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