Nikon D4s: Bayer processing breakthru?

Started 4 months ago | Discussions thread
Scottelly
Senior MemberPosts: 2,177Gear list
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Re: Maybe, but I don't think so.....
In reply to jennyrae, 4 months ago

jennyrae wrote:

I not know but it can be achieved possibly by pixel binning, interpolation and 3CCD. but since it's D4s is CMOS, it is either interpolation or pixel binning or both. cannot see any other way they can improve quality of 16MP sensor that way. I think it only make sense why they choose 16MP as base resolution.

Frankly, I think it's either problems with the test procedure or bad typing/editing. There seems to be no advantage to having more MP or no AA filter in some of the resolution test results on that site, which indicates some type of problem.

Here is what they say about the lens they use: "Where possible (and unless stated otherwise) we use the Sigma 50mm f/1.4 EX DG HSM with the appropriate mount on the camera to minimise variables and ensure that images from different cameras are comparable."

http://www.techradar.com/us/news/photography-video-capture/cameras/camera-testing-resolution-charts-explained-1027585

This would imply they are using a good quality Sigma prime lens (presumably stopped down at least two stops from wide open), which should not have such varying results. The Sigma 50mm f/1.4 EX DG HSM is indeed a good quality lens, and by the resolution of the D800 review, it is certainly capable of higher resolution than what is captured by the other full-frame cameras, indicating that the APS-C sensor cameras should not be at a huge disadvantage.

What I can't understand is how the D600 and D610, with their full-frame 24 megapixel sensor, can get the exact same score of 28 as the D5200 and the D7100, while getting a significantly lower score than the practically identical D5300. Yes, they're all 24 megapixel cameras, but the D600 and D610 are full-frame cameras, which would give them the advantage, when shooting with the exact same lens. This does not seem to be indicated by the test results. The D5300 and D7100 have no AA filter, which should give them an advantage over the D5200, which has the same resolution sensor, but has an AA filter, but that is not indicated by the test results, because the D5200 scores the same as the D7100. Where the D7100 and D5300 are concerned, there is a big difference in tested resolution. This COULD be a result of newer software maybe, but such a difference seems unlikely. What these test results seem to indicate is that removing the AA filter or using a larger sensor has no affect on the ability to resolve detail (D5200 vs. D7100 results), but we all know that is not incorrect, from comparing full-frame cameras against cameras with APS-C size sensors and from comparing the D800 to the D800E. I wonder if in some of the photos the lens is not focused perfectly, which would have a serious degrading affect on the results.

24 MP Nikons:

D3200 - http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/cameras-and-camcorders/cameras/digital-slrs-hybrids/nikon-d3200-1076574/review/4#articleContent

D3300 - http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/cameras-and-camcorders/cameras/digital-slrs-hybrids/nikon-d3300-1212963/review/4#articleContent

D5200 - http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/cameras-and-camcorders/cameras/digital-slrs-hybrids/nikon-d5200-1110231/review/4#articleContent

D5300 - http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/cameras-and-camcorders/cameras/digital-slrs-hybrids/nikon-d5300-1190188/review/4#articleContent

D7100 - http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/cameras-and-camcorders/cameras/digital-slrs-hybrids/nikon-d7100-1132593/review/4#articleContent

D600 - http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/cameras-and-camcorders/cameras/digital-slrs-hybrids/nikon-d600-1096671/review/4#articleContent

D610 - http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/cameras-and-camcorders/cameras/digital-slrs-hybrids/nikon-d610-1195397/review/4#articleContent

Something I find quite interesting is that the 16 megapixel D7000 only achieves a score of 18, but the 16 megapixel D5100 scores much higher, with a 24. Could this be a typo? Should the score really have been a 14? These are cameras with identical 16 megapixel sensors, which were produced at about the same time. The full-frame DF scores a 26, only slightly higher than the D5100, even though it is full-frame and much newer. They are all 16 megapixel cameras with AA filters. There should be SOME difference for sure, assuming the same low-resolution lens is being used for all three cameras, but not such a big difference between the two APS-C sensor cameras.

http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/cameras-and-camcorders/cameras/digital-slrs-hybrids/nikon-d7000-912092/review/5#articleContent

http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/cameras-and-camcorders/cameras/digital-slrs-hybrids/nikon-df-review-1196518/review/4#articleContent

The insane thing here is that the 16 megapixel DF gets a higher score in resolution testing than the Sigma SD1 (26 for the Nikon DF, but only 24 for the Sigma), and the 16 megapixel Nikon D5100 matches the Sigma SD1, which I think EVERYONE would agree is not the case. Take a look yourself:

Nikon D5100 - http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/cameras-and-camcorders/cameras/digital-slrs-hybrids/nikon-d5100-942912/review/4#articleContent

Sigma SD1 - http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/cameras-and-camcorders/cameras/digital-slrs-hybrids/sigma-sd1-merrill-1088902/review/4#articleContent

Now for the piece de resistance! The cheap little D3300 . . . . what do you think it scores?

32

That's right, you read that correctly - thirty-two. (Maybe it's a misprint and it's really supposed to be 22, but I doubt it, because I think it's unlikely that the same misprint would happen with the D5300, which gets the same scores.)

http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/cameras-and-camcorders/cameras/digital-slrs-hybrids/nikon-d3300-1212963/review/4#articleContent

What this is saying is that the cheapest APS-C sensor camera Nikon makes scores higher than the most expensive APS-C sensor camera they make that has the same resolution and no AA filter (the D7100), and better than even their more expensive 24 megapixel full-frame D610. They are all 24 megapixel cameras, but TechRadar is telling us that the new cameras with the little APS-C sensors produce higher image resolution than more professional level APS-C sensor cameras with no AA filter and even the fairly recent full-frame cameras with the same resolution, such as the D610. I find that highly unlikely. What's most outrageous is that the little D3300, with it's score of 32 at ISO 100 is scoring almost as high as the D800, which only scores a 34. I think if you look at the images though, you will see that someone has picked the number out of thin air. The images don't look as if the resolution limit for the D3300 is 32. It looks more like they should be around 28. (Same goes with the images from the D5300.)

Try comparing the actual images yourself:

D3300 resolution test image - http://cdn0.mos.techradar.futurecdn.net/art/cameras/ResolutionCharts/Nikon/Nikon%20D3300%20Resolution/JPEG/Nikon_D3300_i100.jpg

D610 resolution test image - http://cdn0.mos.techradar.futurecdn.net/art/cameras/ResolutionCharts/Nikon/Nikon%20D610%20resolution/JPEG/Nikon_D610_i100.jpg

Nikon DF resolution test image - http://cdn0.mos.techradar.futurecdn.net/art/cameras/ResolutionCharts/Nikon/Nikon%20Df%20Resolution/JPEG/Nikon_Df_i100.JPG

No D4s full resolution test image is available. Instead they only give crops from one small area of the image.

Sigma SD1 resolution test image - http://cdn0.mos.techradar.futurecdn.net/art/cameras/ResolutionCharts/Sigma/SD1%20Merrill/JPEG/Sigma_SD1_Merrill__i100.jpg

Here are how the scores go in the Sigma SD1 test and the Nikon tests:

CAMERA MODEL . . . . ISO 100 - ISO 200 - ISO 400

SD1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .24 . . . . . 24 . . . . . 24

D5100 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 24 . . . . . 24 . . . . . 24

D7000 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18 . . . . . 18 . . . . . 18

DF . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .26 . . . . . 26 . . . . . 26

D4s . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26 . . . . . 26 . . . . . 26

D3200 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28 . . . . . 26 . . . . . 26

D5200 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28 . . . . . 28 . . . . . 28

D3300 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 32 . . . . . 30 . . . . . 30

D5300 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 32 . . . . . 30 . . . . . 30

D7100 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28 . . . . . 28 . . . . . 28

D600 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28 . . . . . 28 . . . . . 28

D610 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28 . . . . . 28 . . . . . 28

D800 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 34 . . . . . 34 . . . . . 34 (The D800 gets a 36 at ISO 50.)

Who knows what the D800E would get, but it probably doesn't matter, considering the inconsistency of these results.

Here is the DPreview image comparison, showing the SD1 vs. the D4, D5200, and D800:

As you can tell, the writing on the little globe of the Earth is sharper and easier to read in the SD1 sample vs. all the other Nikon cameras. This is one reason I think the D800E is the only Nikon camera capable of matching the Sigma SD1 Merrill for resolution (detail). Keep in mind that these images are at ISO 400. This is where the Sigma should not fare as well against the Nikons, but it does quite well, as you can see. Here they are at ISO 100:

Not much difference from the ISO 400 comparison, is there?

Here's another part of the test image compared at ISO 100:

Notice the red rope. I think this is where the Merrill has the greatest advantage over Bayer pattern CFA sensors. The Nikon D5200, with its Toshiba sensor, seems to do better than the other Nikons though. I find that quite interesting. Presumably you noticed how the colors from the Sigma camera look quite different. I think this might be some type of white balance setting issue, because I shoot in raw mode with my Sigma SD14 all the time, and the reds in my photos look as red as the red rope in the Nikon photos here.

Go to the comparison page yourself and play around, if you like:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sigmasd1/19

I know all this is pretty long, but I was writing it for my own self-interest. The process of writing something like this, making the comparisons and showing them to other, gives me a better, more-thorough knowledge of the material. I hope I haven't made too many typos or confused anyone.

 Scottelly's gear list:Scottelly's gear list
Sigma SD14 Sony DT 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 SAM Tamron SP AF 10-24mm F/3.5-4.5 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) +7 more
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