The camera to beat:

Started 8 months ago | Discussions thread
captura
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Re: The camera to beat:
In reply to blue_skies, 8 months ago

blue_skies wrote:

1prime wrote:

blue_skies wrote:

1prime wrote:

I quote from DPR: "The X-T1 is probably Fujifilm's best camera to date, offering a compelling combination of intuitive handling, excellent image quality, and one of best electronic viewfinders we've seen. It also features one of the most impressive autofocus systems on any camera at this price level, both in terms of accuracy with fast lenses and tracking moving subjects. Over all it's a hugely engaging and capable camera, and one that's fundamentally a joy to use."

Ok, Sony, your target has been set up, now take aim and fire! I'm tired of continually seeing a Fuji product with an 84% rating. By about this time you should be able to muster a competitor APS-C camera that will outscore the X-T1's 84%. Yes, the well price positioned A6000 is doing well for you with a better than 10% market position. But I hope you've got an A7000 on your drawing board to overcome the X-T1. I expect your A7K to attend to those pesky details you sometimes say will be fixed on later models. And while you're at it, why don't you fool all of us and bring an A7K in at an attractive price much closer to the A6K than the X-T1? This is your chance to attain an extremely high DPR score and keep us NEX-7ers in your stable.

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1prime

I don't know, Don.

  • Fuji X-T1 + 'kit' lens: $1,699
  • Sony A6000 + 'kit' lens: $800

Sure, the X-T1 scores higher, but it should be compared with the A7, not the A6000.

Kudos to Sony for bringing a full-feature top-of-line spec APS-C camera out for $650 (body only).

  • In terms of market share: Sony 1 - Fuji 0
  • In terms of bragging rights: Sony 0 - Fuji 1

Pick your horses...

And there is room between the A6000 and A7 for either/both an A7000 and A6...

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Cheers,
Henry

Henry, Thanks for your reply. I tend to agree with your conclusion that there is room for something along the lines of an A7000 without or with hump. My point is "wouldn't it be lovely" if Sony achieved the the bragging rights to go along with their increasing market share. Implicit in this accomplishment would be a solid APS-C camera with all its bells and whistles well fastened. That is, enhance the room for improvement on the A6000. And l think Sony can do that at a price between the 2 comparative cameras you mention. Don

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1prime

For Sony products: yes.

Henry:

Yes, a metal body NEX-7 replacement camera next year. But they've lost the way, now.

To compete with Fuji: no.

Fuji X and OMD are huge competitors...and may be way ahead in sales of better mirrorless cameras.

Fuji is really a very niche-oriented camera manufacturer. They consider themselves as the digital replacement for Leica users. In their portfolio, camera and lens positions, they are keen to target the 'pro' user (more UI buttons) and their lenses are 'one-up' to Sony's lenses. I believe that they consciously aim to 'better' the Sony lenses by allowing R&D higher budgets (cost) which satisfies their target market (the product is now better).

Perhaps the A7/A7R are more like Niche cameras than the Fuji X line. Many potential buyers of the FF Sony's are afraid of the lack of lenses available to them. And there's  no denying the quality of Fuji lenses.

The X-trans sensor has been very confusing. It seems unnecessary - I think that Fuji would have gotten to where they are now by simply following the above strategy to the tee. I think that the X-trans sensor has hurt them more then helped them in the end. But, purist believe that X-trans is ahead of equivalent Mp bayer sensors (I think it is lack of AA filter with sharp lens).

Olympus has also swung over to a Bayer-less sensor with the E-M1. No doubt about the photo quality adavantages of Bayer-less.

Sony can target Fuji, but it is the small (but expensive) volume. They seem to do better by following the A7/r targets: same $$$s, different users.

There is a whole range of Fuji 'X' cameras to choose from, starting with the X20, at $500. The X100 and now the X100s have been judged to be the most popular personal cameras for use by professionals.

Sony is much more consumer oriented - for every Fuji camera that ships, Sony sells ten more. Sony deals in quantity, and products have to fit certain budget constraints.a

Unquestionably the quality aspect is on the Fuji side. Have you recently owned or at least handled one?

I think that Sony got pushed 'higher end' by its own customers. Many left Sony to go to Fuji (even many forum users here) out of frustration with roadmaps, product maturity, lack of choices - only to learn Fuji frustrations afterwards. But the ones that stayed, and the ones that came in, have certainly justified the current mix of (expensive) cameras and lenses for E and FE mounts.

Again, they went mainly to get a higher quality, albeit more expensive product.

Many still believe that APS-C is not for consumers - only for prosumers and hobbyists, even some professionals. Stick to P&S or m43 if a consumer. Canon and Nikon (and Sony SLT) proved them wrong with their 'easy-to-use', but bulky, APS-C mirror based cameras - on which many use with the kit-lens only

And many others believe that APS-C is ideal.

Fuji went on a limp - believing that a high-end APS-C mirror less market can be realized, and so far they seem to be correct.

Sony did the unthinkable: they made the APS-C market a consumer market. I would argue that, up until the A6000 and X-T1, the APS-C mirror less cameras has had a very steep learning curve and its products are rather hard to use, making the experience not that much better than dabbling in FF camera/lenses.

Sony, at least temporarily, abandoned the high-quality metal body APS-C camera when they failed to issue a replacement for the NEX-7. It is Sony's own fault that the Fuji X and OMD lines are doing extremely well in sales.

Sony has been plowing forward - with incredibly cheap cameras (their 3 and 5 series top in volume way above the 6 and 7 series), and customers have been dealing with their low keeper rates just because when you do have a keeper, it is an impressive one!

Enthusiasts and pros. are not impressed by incredible cheapo cameras.

It is funny, Sony is covering everything from cell phone cameras to all size still cameras, as well as video. They have a better perspective on how (photographic) products compare than any of us. But they are a consumer (electronics) oriented company, and they think in (annual) products, not systems... Fuji is far more traditional in comparison.

They have made their share of mistakes.

Steve

My guess

Oh, and a good thing: I don't see many Sony users purchasing Sony products for bragging rights

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Cheers,
Henry

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