Definition of bokeh, simply gibberish?

Started 9 months ago | Discussions thread
guitarjeff
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Re: Definition of bokeh, simply gibberish?
In reply to darngooddesign, 9 months ago

darngooddesign wrote:

guitarjeff wrote:

darngooddesign wrote:

guitarjeff wrote:

darngooddesign wrote:

guitarjeff wrote:

darngooddesign wrote:

guitarjeff wrote:

darngooddesign wrote:

guitarjeff wrote:

slimandy wrote:

darngooddesign wrote:

Bokeh is absolutely definable as the out of focus areas caused by depth of field.

No it isn't. It is the quality of the blur.

Then give us the parameters of that thing, if you can't, then it is subjective, which isn't real. If bokeh is real, then it is definable, understand? A quality is an aspect of something definable. Saying a real thing is THE QUALITY is ABSOLUTE GIBBERISH and meaningless.

Its the way the way the out of focus area is rendered by the camera/lens combination. This does not change regardless of who is looking at the photo.

In what WAY does it have to be to be called bokeh? You said "THE WAY" and that impliues parameters, something definable, so now go on and define this real thing called quality for us. How big is it, how soft, how bright.... Not sure why you are having such trouble understanding that a quality is a description of a real thing and NOT In ITSELF a real thing.

There IS NO SUCH THING as a quality by itself. There is no such REAL OBJECT or phenomenon that is a quality apart from a description of a REAL thing or phenomenon. Read this sentence ovcer and over. It is a fact, not opinion.

That's like saying the color blue is not a thing because one person might consider it cool and the other warm.

The color blue IS NOT A THING. It is a description of an object or a phenomenon. Tell me, what is blue beyond a real object?

I changed over to blue paint because its not as vague. I can buy blue paint that is made up of specific ingredients which yield a specific color. I can buy a lens that yields a specific style of out of focus blurring. Bokeh is the style of blurring.

Just because that color blue can be considered warm or cool or that style of blurring can be considered soft or angular does not change the fact that those things exist.

Saying bokeh is a "Style" implies definable parameters, so now I ask for those parameters.

From Wiki: Bokeh characteristics may be quantified by examining the image's circle of confusion. In out-of-focus areas, each point of light becomes an image of the aperture, generally a more or less round disc. Depending how a lens is corrected for spherical aberration, the disc may be uniformly illuminated, brighter near the edge, or brighter near the center. Lenses that are poorly corrected for spherical aberration will show one kind of disc for out-of-focus points in front of the plane of focus, and a different kind for points behind. This may actually be desirable, as blur circles that are dimmer near the edges produce less-defined shapes which blend smoothly with the surrounding image. Lens manufacturers including Nikon, Minolta, and Sony make lenses designed with specific controls to change the rendering of the out-of-focus areas.

"Style of blurring" is the important part, "OF BLURRING", and the blurring is the only REAL thing that can be definitely defined as existing beyond subjectivity.

Not necessarily. Two lenses can produce the same amount of blurring with different styles of bokeh.

Different "Styles"? Styles have parameters. There are style of houses, and style of many different real objects. Saying bokeh "IS" the quality is the same as saying STYLE is a real thing beyond a physical object, which of course, it ISN'T. Tell me what a STYLE is beyond a physical object? YOU CAN"T!!!!! Style is real only in as much as it describes a real object or phenomenon.

Bokeh's parameters are how round the points of light are, how evenly they are illuminated.

You are describing QUALITIES OF THE BLUR, come on, this is obvious.  Again, tell me what is real BEYOND THE BLUR.  How round a point is is PART OF THE BLUR.  I want you to tell me what is REAL BEYOND the blur.  You can't, because EVERYTHING beyond the actual blur is SUBJECTIVE, plain and simple.  All you are doing above is giving me QUALITIES of the blur.     "IS THE QUALITY" is meaninglessa.  Tel me what the qualities OF THE QUALITY is, WITHOUT using aspects of a real thing like the blur.  YOU CAN'T.  There is NOTHING beyond the blur that is NOT SUBJECTIVE!!!!   How round a point is is a DESCRIPTION that can be measured of a REAL thing called BLUR, get it?

I too enjoy this conversation.  But I again ask you the simple question you should be able to answer, TELL ME WHAT QUALITIES a quality has beyond a physical object.  I can explain to you the qualities a chair has, we can measure them.  We can measue how round a point is in a real thing called BLUR.  We can see how soft it is, choppy or not, we are describing QUALITIES of a real thing called BLUR.

So now since you say bokeh "IS THE QUALITY", as if "the quality" is a real thing, then give me some descriptive qualities of that real thing BEYOND THE REAL THING IT IS MADE OF, which is blur.  Saying a point is round, or it's choppy, or smooth are descriptions of a real object, these are descriptions, these are qualities of a real thing called blur.  You should be able to tell me the qualities OF "THE QUALITY" as it's own real thing, not connected to blur, remember, you say bokeh is not just blur, so tell me what it is, describe the qualities of "The quality".  You can't, there is NOTHING, get it. NOTHING beyond the blur that can be described as a real thing beyond subjectivity.  There is no REAL thing called bokeh INSIDE the subjective thing outside the blur.

Whether you LIKE the real thing called BOKEH/Blur is SUBJECTIVE, that's not real, it has no QUALITIES that can be described.  The only way you can describe it, and you have proven this for me already, is by describing REAL QUALITIES (round, soft) of real blur, get it?

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