MFT Users: Do you miss the shallower depth-of-field of bigger sensor cameras?

Started 10 months ago | Discussions thread
Heyseuss Hoolio
Regular MemberPosts: 424
Like?
Re: Light intensity and light in total are not the same!
In reply to Sergey_Green, 10 months ago

Sergey_Green wrote:

Heyseuss Hoolio wrote:

Great Bustard wrote:

MrScorpio wrote:

Sometimes yes, but sometimes it is good to have the good light gathering with a large Aperture without having to have the very shallow DoF.

This is a profound misunderstanding that many have, which causes a great deal of confusion. First of all, we need to distinguish between the relative aperture (f-ratio) and the virtual aperture (entrance pupil), where the relative aperture is the quotient of the focal length and the diameter of the virtual aperture. For example, a 25mm lens with an 18mm aperture diameter will have a relative aperture of 25mm / 18mm = 1.4. Likewise, a 50mm lens with an 18mm aperture diameter will have a relative aperture of 50mm / 18mm = 2.8. Thus, 25mm f/1.4 and 50mm f/2.8 both have the same aperture diameter.

As it turns out, for a given perspective, framing, and display size of the photo, the same aperture diameter results in the same DOF. If we also include the same scene luminance and shutter speed, it also results in the same total amount of light falling on the sensor, which, in turn, will result in the same noise for equally efficient sensors.

In other words, your statement that "sometimes it is good to have the good light gathering with a large Aperture without having to have the very shallow DoF" is a physical contradiction. Specifically, 25mm f/1.4 does not have a "larger aperture" than 50mm f/2.8 -- in fact, they are the same. Of course, f/1.4 is a lower f-ratio than f/2.8, but that is neither here nor there in terms of cross-format comparisons.

Yes what you're saying is partly true and the concept/idea is being looked at the wrong way. Aperture diameter is different than f/stop. I can see you know that. And that the light hitting the sensor formats as a whole is the same. Although, that same concept is what changes the intensity of light that hits the sensor surface itself.

He is talking about he light gathering, as total light, you are switching it to the light intensity - although related, those are not the same.

I know what is being talked about, light intensity and total light are different but both factor into your final image.

The f/stop is the amount of concentrated(focused) light hitting the sensor (m43 or FF). If you crop your FF 50mm f2.8 in the center with a m43 sensor crop, it's still f2.8 on the m43 sensor crop. That's why if you adapt a FF lens to a m43 body the f/stop is still the same, unless you have a speed booster which takes the uncropped light and concentrates it.

Because light gets cut off due to the smaller medium it is projected on. Again, apples and oranges.

It's not apples and oranges, you can't solely talk about one aspect without factoring in the other.

..

"So, if we took a photo of a scene at 25mm f/1.4 1/100 on mFT and 50mm f/2.8 1/100 on FF from the same position, and displayed the photos at the same size, they would have the same DOF and the same amount of light would fall on the mFT and FF sensors, resulting in the same noise if the sensors were equally efficient."

No, not necessarily,

If not, why do these images look almost identical?

Bokeh Test: Olympus ZD 25mm f/2.8 vs Canon EF 50mm f/1.4

They look identical because the equivalent apertures where used and either the shutter speed or ISO were changed to give the same exposure for that given aperture, though the poster doesn't display those other two values.

I think I see what you're saying but it can't be presented in that manner, it's not as simple as that and there's factors that are at play; there's crop factor, there's distance to focal point, there's ISO(if you wanna go there, but we're just talking about light).

All very small factors on the grand scale, contribute almost nothing to this discussion.

Very small factors on the grand scale?  A 2x crop is a pretty big factor towards your final image composition.

Yes they have the same "aperture diameter" but the intensity of light is different across the sensor format as a whole.

Again, those are not the same.

Did I say they were the same?

Put a squarish piece of tape on the wall, take a flashlight and hold it over the tape to cover the corners with the light, it has concentrated brightness, now keep stepping backwards while pointing at the same area. The projection of light gets bigger but that center you were shining on before is getting dimmer, that's f/stop (luminosity) on that square, not solely aperture diameter decisive.

Whatever ..

-- hide signature --

- sergey

I did laugh at the "whatever.."

Obviously we understand what's going on with this discussion, though just looking at it from different view points.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Post (hide subjects)Posted by
NopeNew
Yes.New
Hmm.New
YesNew
YesNew
NoNew
YesNew
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum PPrevious NNext WNext unread UUpvote SSubscribe RReply QQuote BBookmark post MMy threads
Color scheme? Blue / Yellow