B&W Photography

Started 7 months ago | Questions thread
RomanJohnston
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Re: Roman and Rservello
In reply to jkjond, 7 months ago

jkjond wrote:

RomanJohnston wrote:

Alan Brown wrote:

I think you are both right.. it semantics

In camera conversion is not going to fit all circumstances.. even if you do like the output mostly

However, you could shoot in B&W.. that gives you the advantage of seeing the tones on the LCD at least. where the contrast is lying...

Rservello is saying that you are not tied to those exposures if you shoot RAW.. that's his point (I think)

I think you're both right..

If you ever attended Vincent's workshop and his conversion techniques, the in camera conversion or auto conversion from ACR does not take into account half the information you just recorded. Your throwing out the baby AND the bathwater. I could never go back now and just do a straight conversion.

Not true.

Roman, it seems you aren't aware that shooting in black and white mode and saving a raw file records all the colour data - you have the option to work with the camera conversion or start again from the full colour info in post processing.

Some people find it invaluable for assessing tonality on location.

I don't use it, but I believe there are options for controlling the conversion including uploading custom profiles to your camera, so you aren't tied to some lab derived algorithm.

I didn't say you CAN never go back as in the data is no longer there...I am saying I would never go back to a straight conversion after learning what I learned in the class. I know RAW files give you a "Go back" for any editing you want to do color or B&W...or any other type of editing you want to explore.  Maybe that is the sticking point I did not understand....maybe he thought I meant I could never go back and try something different instead.

As for a quick field shot....yes, I can understand it because sometimes in my editor, I do a quick assessment the same way for some of my work, including going through my old stuff to see what might work, but it is only a cursory glance to me and the true conversion would have to take into consideration ALL the subtle tones in the conversion process. And the process is not a LAB derived algorithm. It goes into each color layer RGB and allows you to see each layers tonal values and then stack the layers in a way where each layers attributes contribute to the B&W, THEN going into Silver Effects Pro only after you have pulled the most from each layer. I truly invite you to either pick up the book Oz to Kansas or go to one of his classes...his B&W work is on a completely different level and worth understanding the process.

My argument for using his conversion method have nothing to do with exposure. It has to do with subtle tonalities that would be lost in a straight conversion actually having some weight in the end product. That is why I am having a hard time understanding his comment. Its a lot like saying....The leave are green because dogs bark at the moon....lol. His arguments don't even become slightly relevant to the topic of why I recommended what I recommended. That's why I am here scratching my head.

Totally appreciate you trying to explain..but I think you confused me even more.

I hope this clarifies it for you - you can shoot black and white and keep both the baby and the bathwater.

Actually its best when you shoot and process the best color shot you can ....THEN convert it. Baby AND Bathwater....(here I think we ARE saying the same thing)

Roman

Roman

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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious; It is the source of all true art and science.
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Wedding and fine art photographer based in the Lake District, UK

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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious; It is the source of all true art and science.
~ Albert Einstein
http://www.commercialfineart.com/
http://www.romanjohnston.com
http://www.pbase.com/romansphotos

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