New E-mount APS-C bodies will have DSLR shape, like A3000

Started 11 months ago | Discussions thread
parallaxproblem
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,720Gear list
Like?
Re: Let's stop negative speculation
In reply to 120 to 35, 11 months ago

120 to 35 wrote:

parallaxproblem wrote:

120 to 35 wrote:

parallaxproblem wrote:

120 to 35 wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

120 to 35 wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

...to replace the so far reigning RF-like little bricks of [former] Nex'es, but I think they are in a teeny-weeny minority, at least if this little poll can be taken as measuring correct temperatures . As all indifferent and "don't care" will fall into that last category of 7%:

What is the camera you are hoping to see in February?

  • New FF A-mount - 40%, 2,658 Votes
  • New NEX-7 alike FF E-mount - 29%, 1,979 Votes
  • New APS-C A-mount - 22%, 1,510 Votes
  • NEX-7 upgrade - 22%, 1,480 Votes
  • New RX2 - 8%, 564 Votes
  • New APS-C E-mount compact camera - 7%, 493 Votes

Total Voters: 6,724

Is the overall 51% asking for N7 mk-II with either FF or APS-C sensor a result which will sway Sony in favor to keep the Nex-like form factor alive?

Perhaps not, but... WHAT ELSE can we do except voicing our concerns and hopes?!!

So, I think that anyone telling the OP to shut up and go away is not only uncivil and outright vulgar, but more importantly they're doing a gross disservice to their best interest and hopes !!

jpr2

Opinion polls are always conducted on a sample of those involved. The poll is certainly not representative of new customers who do not own a Sony camera and do not visit a rumor site about Sony. It is representative of existing owners, especially those interested in new models.

I agree the existing fans of RF style cameras should make their views heard, repeatedly if necessary, in a positive way. I recall you have done this positively on a few occasions.

But when some of the posts look completely anti-Sony they are harming the "campaign" if there is one.

In recent weeks I have commented on some of those opinion threads with a more positive view about the prospects of E-mount cameras. Many others have done the same. But it seems negative posters are not really interested in other users opinions and repeat the harmful anti-Sony message whenever there is an opportunity.

So I no longer believe them when they say they are concerned about themselves and us as users.

in which way voicing these concerns can be seen as "negative"?

After all it is Sony decision makers & marketing who are committing a PR suicide by keeping mum, while a single reassurance: "yes, we're going to continue with NEX-like form factor" (even if delivered in entirely off-hand manner in some interview or other) would suffice to appease all such fears

jpr2

You asked if I could expound a bit in which way voicing these concerns can be seen as negative.

An example of a positive way to express our concerns is like: "Sony, we like the shape of our cameras and plan to buy an upgrade. So we are looking forward to an upgrade shaped like this with these enhancements [ long list of suggestions here ] next year."

That was tried... a number of positive comments were put on the A7 blog asking for a confirmation of what the discontinuation of the NEX product name actually meant and whether there would be continuity of products in the future alpha range

There was no response!

The negative way is like "Because you didn't tell us about the models that you have not yet announced, we think you are abandoning your loyal users. People don't trust you etc."

Well, to be honest they've already done exactly that in the A-mount range on several occasions

A company with a correct customer realtionship model would attempt to sooth user concerns and issue re-assurances. In Sony's case they just said "by the way we've dropped the NEX product name and everything will be called Alpha in future" and have organised an interview with the A7 product manager in which the only thing he talked about was 'change'... hardly reassuring!

Why should the customers (who are have paid Sony for these products) need to go cap in hand to Sony to find out what is happening with the product range that they bought into and that is announced as discontinued?

Regarding the second point you made, I think we shouldn't judge until the next round of actual E-mount model announcements. In the meantime we shall continue to voice our preferences positively.

The problem is that many of the people here are simply in denial... look at the first few responses to this thread. They people replying simply don't believe that it is possible that Sony can change the style of their E-mount cameras and are totally convinced that new Rangefinder bodies will be released next year

Sony will be delighted to hear this, or should I say the guys in Sony who have decided to change the body style will be delighted to hear this as it means that they can get their promotions and then leave the next poor unfortunate guys to handle the sh*t-storm when the existing customers finally wake up to the fact that their product range has been cancelled!

Nobody will hear your positively voiced preferenes because the only interpretation of 'positivity' will be happiness with the current situation of NEX cancellation to be replaced by A3000 and A7 series bodies

This is all negative speculation.

Think carefully. Sony has not abandoned its customers and many here believe it won't.

I'm an A900 FF OVF DSLR owner from just after product launch (purchased December 2008)... Sony has abandoned me twice already! (three times if you also include the flash mount alongside the OVF and the FF sensor)

These people are not in denial.

Please read the first few comments again

Now if Sony does abandon their existing customers, there will be so much negative publicity from all those who bought their camera systems and had to sell off that it will impact Sony's sales in all areas in a very big way.

But the people who make those decisions won't care about that. As far as Mr Maki is concerned the QX range is a huge success because it generated a lot of pre-orders. We know the idea is rubbish and doesn't really work in practice but that doesn't matter since the initial pre-sales and sales figures at launch looked good and so Mr Maki has already moved on. What happens in terms of product sales afterwards, or lost revenues from RX100II or WX150 sales that didn't happen because people bought the QX instead etc etc. is not relevant and somebody else will catch the heat for that

Mr Maki even laughed publicly at his boss for asking who would want this new product... nothing is allowed to get in the way of 'innovation', however destructive that innovation may eventually turn out to be

Incedentally, when it does come to sell-offs one of the first will probably be me - as well as my NEX's I have a lot of high-value A-mount stuff and no obvious replacement body for my A900. NEX together with emotional attachment to Minolta was keeping me in Sony but if that's gone... If I was greedy I'd be trying to talk things up in order to shift my gear for a good price while I still can, but I'm not like that... I'm not so sure of some of the others here, however

So there is no indication that Sony will abandon their customers and let's not spread negative speculation.

Then why are you needing to say this to me? If Sony were so concerned about their existing customers wouldn't there be a quote somewhere that you could link to?

The A7 product manager has just had an interview with DPReview and there is nothing comforting there for us. Sony are the people who should be countering speculation in a void which they themselves have created, but they aren't... why not?

Think of it this way. Sony have cancelled the NEX brand name and this means one of two things:

1. Nothing, only the name has changed and models will continue to be released as before

2. A change, models will not be the same as before

If nothing has changed then why don't Sony confirm this? Currently there is no confirmation (and here you can see the delusion of some of the people posting on this forum immediately)... which can only be because either:

1. Cancelling the NEX brand name means no changes to the range, but Sony don't care enough about their customers to explicity state this (ie. Sony don't care about us)

2. Sony are unable to make any statements becaue they have no idea what they are going to do in the future (ie. Sony are totally lost)

3. There has been a change indicated by dropping the NEX name and future models will not be the same as before, but Sony do not want to tell us that because they know we won't like it if they do admit it (ie. Sony have abandoned us)

I do not see any other options. Please note that I do not believe the nonsense spoken about Sony being 'frightened of telegraphing their plans to their competitors' (as if their competitors don't know them already!), a general statement could easily notify customers that there would be ongoing continuity of some of their future products with many existing NEX bodies without revealing any details or secrets

So which of the final three options is it? Sorry that none of them seem positive, but the options are basically as stated

So what are you suggesting should be said instead?

- 'We like our NEX and look forward to seeing new models'? There aren't going to be any more NEX models

- 'We like our NEX and look forward to seeing A series models which are similar'? The NEX-5T was going to be called the A5000, and then the name got changed to NEX

- 'We like our NEX and look forward to seeing A series models which are similar even though there almost was one but it got renamed to NEX at the last minute in spite of the fact that name was about to be discontinued... but we still want to see more like that model please but called A series this time' Yeah, right!

I think I get your frustration. You were a Minolta user and bought an advanced Sony DSLR when Sony took over the Minolta line and released new cameras. You felt the switch to translucent mirror A99 has left you without a choice of upgrade more or less exactly like the camera you had. You do not think an electronic viewfinder is an upgrade to an optical one. You can still use your Alpha mount lenses with the A99 but this is not suitable for you. You wish Sony would continue the old tradition with minor incremental changes just like Nikon has done with its expensive pro models.

I do not get any of your speculations about Sony executives etc. Other people have said enough. I just don't think inside Sony a mid-level exec can mess up a division and not face the consequences later on.

The reason I am saying " let's not spread negative speculation." is because negativity tends to discourage both regular forum users and anyone wanting to join and learn about the E-mount cameras. Forum members are largely here to discuss, help and enjoy exchanges about their cameras and lenses. New threads popping up every few days by the same small group of posters about the same negative points are just boring. And if you are wondering why you got the short shrift from some early responders to this thread, it is because they knew this was going to be the same old.

Thank you for reading my comments thoroughly and drawing some interesting conclusions.  However the posts I have made aren't about frustration...  they are simply trying to notify people of what seems to be going on as the signs are pretty clear now and the level of denial is quite staggering - many people are still 100% certain that Sony will be releasing RF NEX-style bodies next year...

Actually there are a small number of poster giving me short shrift here and I could list the names pretty quickly, so the 'small group' arguement works both ways.  Try reading the arguements used against what is being said, most aren't even coherent and simply rely on either: 'faith' (literally!) in Sony; a deliberate misinterpretation of the non-statements by Sony reps when announcing the end of the NEX branding; or over-simplistic notions of how large corporations work

Personal details...  no need to read further other than to respond directly to the points above

Actually any frustration I may have isn't the concerning situation over A-mount: I only used that as an example from a personal point of view of how Sony have 'walked away' from A-mount users so demontrating that is is possible for Sony to do the same with E-mount users

I do have similar feelings to those you describe about the A900 and A99 (close but not quite the same), but they aren't 'emotional' and this isn't a reason for a 'hissy fit' as I can easily sell the A900 and Sony/Minolta lenses and buy something similar in Canon/Nikon (and indeed this is what I am likely to do!).  I would also be discussing such things on the A-mount forum if that was the case, not here.  There is nothing particularly unique about A-mount and brand changes are annoyingly expensive but possible

The cause of my personal frustration is really just about NEX.  Frankly I was fed-up of carting heavy DSLR equipment around and like many other people here was bowled-over by the release of NEX which offered DSLR quality in a highly portable package with lots of new high-tech goodies thrown in.  Not only that, but the first versions of NEX-5 and NEX-3 really hit the spot in many way.  NEX was unique, there was nothing else around quite like them and even now NEX probably offers the best mirrorless bodies (though sadly not the best lens range).  I admit that I do feel frustration that Sony are about to dump that great idea just to go chasing after Nikon and Canon again, instead of building on their existing user base -  I saw an A3000 in a shop window for the first time today, and couldn't think of a further departure from the NEX bodies I have

Finally I've seen many (many!) examples of ambtious mid-level execs messing-up a division in a large corporation for their own personal advancement...  sometimes they pay for it later and sometimes they don't, but it doesn't stop it from happening.  I'm genuinely surprised that more people on the forum haven't seen this.  Perhaps everybody is too young or not working in large corporate environments, as many people I come into contact with in real life have similar stories to tell about one or two ambitious idiots in a corporation messing everything up for their own personal gain (wasn't that also what the financial crisis we are all living now about?)

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Post (hide subjects)Posted by
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum PPrevious NNext WNext unread UUpvote SSubscribe RReply QQuote BBookmark post MMy threads
Color scheme? Blue / Yellow