Sony mirrorless FullFrame!?!?

Started 6 months ago | Discussions thread
ultimitsu
Senior MemberPosts: 5,237
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Re: If I wanted a large camera I would have gone FF already (nt)
In reply to tt321, 6 months ago

tt321 wrote:

ultimitsu wrote:

I could do the same with Sony APSC vs. FF Canon when you asked me to (see below), and I am surprised I did not have to cherry-pick so much. Just used your examples and voila.

I still have no idea what you are on about. My point is, and has been repeated several times now, larger sensor does not mean larger lens. What exactly did you prove with sony example? that I am right?

You specifically asked which Sony lens was larger and disappointingly so than Canon SLR equivalent lenses. I gave examples.

Now I know why you are so lost and confused. Let's review what was said by whom:

ultimitsu wrote: There is no reason why sony cannot make lenses the same size or smaller than these Canon SLR lenses.

Here I was referring to lenses for the same sensor size - Sony FF lens (if they are to be made to match an FF NEX), after giving Canon FF lens as examples of FF lenses are not bigger than M43 lenses.

Then you responded:

tt321 wrote: Using the same line of reasoning, there was no reason why most of the current APSC NEX lenses have to be so big, and yet in fact they are, disappointingly.

Two things need to be said.

1, you were the person who gone on about "disappointingly big", not me.

2, in the context of this particular point, you probably did not realise but you were arguing that Sony NEX APS-C is disappointing larger than Canon APS-C, because the statement you are responding to was discussing sensors of the same size.

Which is why I asked:

Ultimitsu: what are you on about? which sony NEX APS-C lens is disappointing larger than comparable Canon?

I was waiting for your APS-C vs APS-C example. instead, you gave me an APS-C vs FF example. which was completely irrelevant to this particular point, but was a proof to the other point that I was making - smaller sensor does not mean smaller lens.

Fundamental engineering principles would indicate that everything else being equal, a lens that covers a smaller image circle should not be larger than another covering a larger one, if we are talking about what's objectively possible. There may exist multiple counter-examples in the marketplace, but these have nothing to do with what's objectively possible.

There is difficulty in defining what exactly do you mean by "everything else being equal". because there are two possibilities.

1, final image being equal, which means equal aperture diameter, equal light passed, equal DOF. that is the case with 42.5/0.95 vs 85/1.8. the 0.95 lens will be larger because it has to have the same aperture size while also has to have far more complex optical design to refocus light from such larger opening onto the sensor.

Or

2, F ratio being equal, in which case, a m43 lens would be smaller because its actual aperture is also smaller.

I'm all for great advancements in FF mirrorless and the eradication of SLR dinosaurs this could bring,

Why do you care if SLR is eradicated? LOL do their emotionally hurt you or something?

I used to count the number of statements in a dialog up to the point where one conversation partner starts psycho-analysing the other. This one has come respectably late

But to answer your question of why: the shorter each technology node lives on the average, along a line of development, the more progressive that line of development is. I like photographic technologies and want to see them progress at a faster pace. SLRs have flourished for too long. Hopefully it will not be as long as battleships or steam engines or, indeed, dinosaurs.

I cannot follow this logic. I do not see how SLR's longevity has anything to do with technology not progressing. I do not necessarily notice this alleged phenomenon in any other technological sector either.

Mirrorless s actually been around for a very long time, - the very first non-DSLR digital cameras was a mirrorless, it just wasnt a system camera. So it would be a falsity to say DSLR hindered the development of mirrorless. the only obstacles Mirror-less faced was those inherent in its very nature - LCD lag, battery drain, in-consequential size saving, etc.

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