Perhaps the Challenges should become juried voting?

Started Aug 12, 2013 | Discussions thread
chrisby
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Re: Perhaps the Challenges should become juried voting?
In reply to Tim A2, Aug 19, 2013

Tim A2 wrote:

chrisby wrote:

Harveydad wrote:

One major thing to keep in mind when you are making recommendations about the challenges and the voting: for DP Review 'clicks' equal 'money'. Nothing, and I repeat NOTHING, will change if a change results in fewer 'clicks' on the DPR site. NOW: how can the entire Challenge system be changed without reducing the clicks? I see no way, but perhaps others will...............

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POGO was right !

I fully agree!

The requirements (among others) for changes should be:

not reducing clicks, may be even more

not too much effort to implement

not too much aditional work for the hosts

not too complicate for the voters

I tried to take this into account with a suggestion just some posts above. The feedback was nearly zero. May be you could have a look at it. My mistake to hide it in this long thread. Or perhaps it is just nonsens.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51977537

Beside voting often and not too strict/not too low I would like to suggest another approach:

Votes should be weighted according several criteria. That means, the higher the rank of a voter, the higher the weight/influence of the vote i.e. each vote is multiplied by a factor (factor/weight to be discussed).

The voter rank increases according criteria (as a suggestion) like

Amount of votes casted in the past
Amount of entries
Duration of membership
Average challenge result

Advantages I would expect are:

noone is excluded; DPR maintain their clicks
cheating could not be avoided but compensated to a large extent by the honest ones
nearly no influence of people/friends which create an account just to cheat
the criteria leads to a certain degree of quality, at least seriousness of voting
voter rank could be visible on the account home site as an option; like member status
voters feel motivated to vote more to get a higher rank
the criteria could be implemented by DPR without too much effort
no interpretation by the host whether a voting pattern is cheating or has a serious background
the voting according a rank work in the background; no further things to do by nobody.

OK, this is another suggestion among countless others in the past and I could really understand that you all are tired about this issue. But may be this could be a first step whithout too much work for DPR and in relation to the work a noticeable first improvement.

What do you think?

......................................

Chrisby, I copied the relevant portion of your post above the dotted line. You spent significant time and effort to propose what appears to me to be a fresh idea and that behaviour certainly was not rewarded. I think it is too bad you got so little feedback. I read it carefully and failed to comment the first time.

My first reaction is that it seems to have potential to increase the quality of voting if the details worked out and if it is doable in terms of programming and would not cause any loss of voters. Some newcomers might say why bother, my vote doesn't count for much. I particularly like the idea of weighting a vote based somehow on how well the voter has done in the challenges. I remember someone earlier having an arguement against that point.

My second reaction was that this only very indirectly addresses the problem of cheating and challenge sabotage, which is the issue at hand. It would help reduce the effect of irresponsibile voting. Just the idea of having a waiting period before new members can vote would have some impact, though. I doubt that many new members even know about the challenges right away. They could still participate by providing entries and comments in the meantime.

Thanks for the contribution of a fresh idea (to me anyway). Notice that other ideas here didn't receive much attention either so don't put too much into that. All that truely counts anyway is what DPR thinks. It would be nice if folks would help build ideas though. Keep in mind that there are actually very few people that even come around here any more.

tim

Tim, Harveydad,

thank you so much for your answers. Here are some thoughts which come in my mind during the last days. I wish I could spend more time

Long ago I stopped to discuss challenge rules, cheating issues and possible improvements because of the passivity of DPR. Currently the challenge forum consists mostly of those topics. But I feel that people get a bit tired of that and we have ruined the character of the forum. Don’t get me wrong: I appreciate very much the detective work of members about falsified exif data, multiple accounts etc. and also to put an appropriate statement below the belonging entry.

The main idea of my suggestion was to implement some minor changes and to keep on enjoying challenges and the forum.

When we discussed about the challenge stats (average placement) we heard that this is of no value because the placement says nothing about the skills of the photographer. When we ask why someone cheats we do not understand because there is no price, no money, nothing to win. When we analyze the impact of cheating on the challenge results often the conclusion is that cheating has not much influence.

But why there are then so enormous efforts to combat cheating? I doubt that there is a reasonable ratio between those efforts and the influence of cheaters. Should we sacrifice the spirit of the forum and lose fun about challenges only because of some idiots?

Tim, you too recently drew attention to that with this link. Thank you for that.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52000079

I think history shows that we cannot put any pressure on DPR. Is it really a good idea to punish ourselves by stopping to host challenges or not enter challenges anymore?

Thank you very much for your engagement in this forum!

chris

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