Crystal Ball Required... Locked

Started Jul 9, 2013 | Discussions thread
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qianp2k
Senior MemberPosts: 9,468Gear list
Re: Crystal Ball Required...
In reply to SushiEater, Jul 14, 2013

SushiEater wrote:

My points are that 5D3 AF lock-on speed is likely a bit faster and Canon lenses are better that both help to increase AF hit rate at specific shutter speed.

Your point is meaningless because there is no problem with AF. And faster (if it was faster to begin with) has nothing to do with shutter speed. You are sounding like an amateur now just to prove something that is not a problem.

I am talking about overall AF response time and AF lock-on speed. From what I have heard 5D3 edges out D800 in both areas that help you to capture the moment and improve AF hit rate.

Why in the world would I sell very excellent zoom lens for a prime which is not any better? And please don't start me on that.

Sigma 120-300/2.8 OS is not as good as Canon 300L/2.8 IS II as latter not only sharper but AF lock on faster that would help you in your job. I also believe two cameras not one camera solution.

That is very debatable in the first place but why are you even talking about it since it is not the problem?

It will improve your AF lock-on speed and will be sharper if you use two cameras.

The problem is to stop subject movement and the only way to do it is with high shutter speed that 5D3 can't provide because I have to use proper exposure and I can't.

Again my point is that 5D3 with better Canon lenses will help you to improve hit rate. But still technically no difference between you shoot at ISO 3200 then push 2-stop back and at ISO 12800 or slightly lower.

How many times do I have to tell you that hit rate is not a problem?

Did you ever talk blurry? I bet many of some of those blurry not caused by shutter speed but a small lag of AF lock-on speed in panning mode.

And yes there is big difference between shooting Nikon at 3200 with pushing and Canon at 12800.

No, 5D3 doesn't have more banding issue than D800 at ISO 3200.

There is a big difference just to start using 5D3 at 12800 to begin with.

Technically no difference between you shoot at ISO 3200, then increase exposure 2 stops in software (I am not talking tone curve adjustment but moving exposure bar) and you shoot at ISO 12800. Otherwise if both shoot at ISO 3200 I don't see why D800 has an obvious advantage.

These are not just paparazzi shots. I usually pre-focus and wait until I get some kind of expression on the face.

5DIII has 61 AF pt, 45-cross-pt among them (faster lenses have more cross-pt available to choose from) so you can select a cross-pt and 5D3 can shoot faster in burst rate.

5D3 can have 150 cross points how is that going to help if focusing is not a problem with either camera.

From what I have read, 5D AF lock-on speed is faster, shooting fast, better in AI-servo mode and more responsible overall that will increase your hit rate

Again, hit rate is not a problem. Sudden subject movement is.

Again it's partially related to AF lock-on speed and hope you get. How many PJs use Canon cameras as we see in TV these days?

Even a simple sudden laugh can ruin the picture. I was struggling with 5D2 and 7D. With D800 there is a lot less struggling because I can underexpose (thus getting the higher shutter speed) and bring it back without banding.

5D2 and 7D are old cameras and 7D is crop camera so not at the same level of D800. But 5D3 is a different story.

Not true at all. 5D3 is about 1/2 better in RAW than 5D2 at best. Search here, many people ran that test a year ago. But again it has nothing to do with underexposure and subsequent banding.

D800 doesn't have better high ISO than 5D3 and even doesn't have better DR than 5D3 in high ISO.

In high ISOs, 5D3 actually has higher DR than D800.

First of all it doesn't.

yes, according to DXOMark, 5D3 DR even out D800 at ISO 2000, and then is slightly better in high ISO, higher ISO, better from 5D3 although not huge difference.

Second of all, banding is not really related with DR.

related but Canon cameras don't have more banding than Nikon in high ISOs, certainly not at ISO 3200.

Of course Canon cameras have banding, even at normal exposure. There are several posts here about it, just search.

All cameras have banding more or less. Canon banding is ONLY obviously when you severely underexpose and then push many stops especially in base ISO.

And third, DR has nothing to do with it because I am not recovering highlights so I never reach full potential of either cameras. I can underexpose D800 is much as want and it will never show banding. Just take a look in the other post below. How much underexposure do you think that is?

At ISO 3200, whatever you can do with D800 you also can do with 5D3.

Not true. I can recover at least 2 stops of underexposure from D800 but can't from 5D3.

I don't think so at ISO 3200. You need to provide scientific samples taken side by side at ISO 3200 with comparable lenses and let us see.

Technically there is no difference from perspective of noises/grain between you expose correctly (on your subject, the interviewed person) at one ISO stop and you underexposed (in order to use faster shutter) and then push 2-stop back. Canon cameras have no more banding than Nikon in high ISOs as Canon cameras have higher DR than Nikon's ones in high ISOs that confirmed in DXOMark sensor's tests.

Really. In what universe? Actually DXO was measured at really high ISO, not at 3200. In either case I don't shoot higher than 3200 anyway.

5D3 is no less than D800 at ISO 3200 from either DR or SNR perspective according to DXOMark.

I don't care about DXO, they change their minds every five seconds. Besides even at high ISO the difference is minor. How often do you shoot at 12800 or higher?

the question is for you actually, as you seem need to shoot at ISO 12800.

I care what I can do with 5D3 and D800. 5D3 can't even recover from ISO 100. Just a quick search.

Rubbish. D800's advantage is ONLY obvious in your shooting style that you severely underexposed photos, and then push shadows many stops back at base ISO. I'd not shoot in that way as I said.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/5DIII-D800/index_controlled-tests.html

a) it's mainly for his balance purpose in his report otherwise overwhelmingly he prefers 5D3 and he used 5D3 most times in real world shooting; b) Fred himself said it's better for 5D3 to overexpose a little bit upto +1EV (or ETTR technique that I used); c) it's just for demo purpose so he didn't further process.

http://horshack.smugmug.com/photos/i-7hpFr5V/1/O/i-7hpFr5V.jpg

And if you believe DXO so much how about DXO sensor rating? D800e-96, 5D3-81!!!! Now that is HUGE difference.

a) DXOMark summary total score is highly subjective and vastly overweighed on specific factor such as shadow DR; b) if we check detailed test data except 2-stop DR advantage in shadow areas at base ISO, 5D3 sensor stands well with D800 (such as SNR) in other areas; c) Sensors alone don't take photos but must together with lenses, then the gap is quickly narrowed.

No matter how you cut it D800 IQ is so much better than 5D3.

Much better? Don't think so as confirmed in DXO system (lens on cameras) tests.

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Publications/DxOMark-Reviews/Which-lenses-should-you-choose-for-your-Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-III/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-III-vs.-Nikon-D800-Competition-is-closer-than-expected

24-70L II on 5D3 vs 24-70G on D800 18 vs 15 mpix

70-200L/2.8 IS II on 5D3 vs 70-200G/2.8 VR on D800 21 vs 20 mpix

Whoops, Canon two F2.8 zoom on 5D3 still beat Nikon counterparts on D800 despite 14mp deficit.

And that idiot who compared identical lenses on both cameras and claimed that Canon can get close to Nikon is totally wrong because he did not put good identical lenses on both cameras.The emphasis on Identical here. All he proved that some Canon lenses might be better than Nikon.

I'd say 5D3 will handle as good as D800 in your described scenes.

Until you actually try it you can say whatever you want but it is not necessary the truth.

Many PJs already using 5DIII everyday and I still see more white lenses on Canon on TV these days 

The interesting thing is that you are only talking and have not posted a single example.

I did in Page 2 of this thread, and I am still waiting your BIF photos by exposing on sky and then pulling deep dark birds many stops for comparisons such as large size to show us such technique has not side effects.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3514360?page=2

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