New Canon 70D specs leaked!

Started Jun 27, 2013 | Discussions thread
Alastair Norcross
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Re: New Canon 70D specs leaked!
In reply to jrkliny, Jun 30, 2013

jrkliny wrote:

Alastair Norcross wrote:

jrkliny wrote:

Alastair Norcross wrote:

SpartanWarrior wrote:

vlad2304 wrote:

It is quoted that Canon 70D will have:

  • 20.2mp CMOS Sensor
  • DIGIC 5+

I understand it will be brand new sensor and reasonable 20.2 MP make me hope that it will be very good low light shooter. At least, I want to believe that it will be on the par with Nikon's 24 MP sensor.

Brand new sensor? isn't it the same sensor that is in my 5D III except that it will be a crop? could be a good back up to my 5D III btw...

How could it be the same sensor "except that it will be a crop"? What does that even mean? It won't be a crop from the 5D3 sensor. That is, it won't have the same pixel density. It will be much higher. 20.2MP on an APS-C sensor is more than twice the density of 22.3MP on a FF sensor. And it won't have the same number of pixels. Of course it's a brand new sensor.

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Alastair
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I think we need an engineer who understands sensors to explain what Canon has done. Is this really a new sensor or did Canon make just enough tweaks in the 18 mp to claim improved resolution? I think Canon did some tweaking mainly for marketing purposes and Canon is using the same manufacturing process. Apparently they need to make a major revision in order to move to 24 mp and beyond. That may also be true for making improvements in DR and noise reduction.

Are there any engineers out there who understand and can explain sensor technology?

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Well first, the "tweaks" you'd have to make to an 18MP sensor to "claim" improved resolution to 20.2MP would have to involve adding 2.2 megapixels, assuming that Canon's "claim" isn't actually a lie (I presume you're not accusing Canon of lying). That, all by itself, requires a new sensor.

Is Canon using the "same manufacturing process"? What, exactly, do you mean by "same manufacturing process"? They are obviously making a sensor, so it's the same process in that respect, the process of making a sensor. Given that it's a different pixel density, it's clearly a different manufacturing process in that respect, the process of making a sensor with a certain pixel density. Other than that, anything would be just a wild guess. Of course, that doesn't seem to stop you from thinking that all we have is "some tweaking for marketing purposes". You seem to have an amazing ability to discern a lot about the quality of the sensor merely from its MP count.

I think I'll wait to see just how the sensor performs at capturing images. But you go right ahead and jump to all sorts of conclusions based on the bare minimum of information about the sensor. I'm sure it's a lot more fun to think the worst of Canon than it is to wait for actual relevant information.

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Alastair
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Again, I think we need a sensor engineer to understand what Canon has done to produce a slightly higher pixel count sensor without making any substantial jump.

I don't think it is "fun" to think the worst of Canon. Unfortunately after several years with absolutely no sign of improving the APS-C sensors, I doubt they have made any breakthrough. I am certainly not expecting less noise at high ISO.

But why do you doubt they have made any breakthrough? On what, exactly, are you basing this doubt? They have had several 18MP APS-C sensors with approximately the same (actually very high) IQ since September 2009. Now they announce a 20.2MP APS-C sensor. That provides precisely no evidence either to doubt an improvement in IQ or to expect it. You have precisely one piece of information about the sensor--its MP count. That gives you no basis whatsoever to be either pessimistic or optimistic about things like DR or high ISO noise performance. On the other hand, we know that Canon have significantly improved at least the high ISO noise performance of its FF sensors. The 5D2 was announced in September 2008. Three, three and a half, and four years later, the 1DX, the 5D3, and the 6D all have significantly better high ISO performance. That, at least, is actual evidence that Canon can and do make improvements to high ISO noise performance in their sensors. It remains to be seen whether they have made significant improvements in their APS-C line. As I said above, I prefer to withhold judgment until I have relevant evidence. Your preference is obviously different.

Perhaps the difference in our temperaments is explained by the fact that I grew up loading and processing my own 35mm film, both B&W and color. I remember pushing Tri-X 2 stops to get ISO (which we then called "ASA") 1600. My 7D gives me simply amazing image quality. I can shoot at ISO 12,800 and get better results than Tri-X at ISO 1600. I will, of course, be delighted when I get even better quality. For now, all this whining about how Canon isn't allowing us to shoot black cats in coal cellars with fast shutter speeds and small apertures reminds me of nothing so much as Louis C.K.'s observation that "everything's amazing and nobody's happy". As he says in that interview "we live in an amazing amazing world, and it's wasted on the crappiest generation of spoiled idiots". (http://www.thatvideosite.com/v/94)

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Alastair
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