* Canon 70d * its here!

Started Jun 27, 2013 | Discussions thread
rwbaron
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Re: Naaah.
In reply to Jerry-astro, Jun 28, 2013

I agree Jerry.  As a 7D owner I am considering adding the 6D to my bag but in no way would I see it as a replacement for my 7D as they are two very different cameras.  There's also a lot of room between 19 and 61 points for Canon to develop a tweener AF system that would provide differentiation between the models and classes.  I could even see the 7D2 with the 5D3 AF and 10 FPS, similar weather sealing and the 70D sensor.  IMO Canon would have no trouble selling them to the amateur wildlife and birder crowd waiting to upgrade and who either can't or won't spend the money on the big heavy glass required to shoot FF.

FF is becoming more and more a non-issue for the weekenders that shoot FL limited due to the high price of the new big white tele's.  I for one can't rationalize the expenditure for a 500f4LIS for a hobby when I can shoot with the 7D and 400f5.6L and still have more pixels on the subject.  Carrying the 500 on an airplane as I'd have to do 2 or 3 times a year creates even another concern.  The 400 fits in easily in my FAA legal carryon case along with all the rest of my kit.

It does concern me though that the 7D is now almost 4 years old and the D300S is I believe even older.  I do wonder why both companies have waited so long to upgrade these cameras.

Bob

Jerry-astro wrote:

All of your arguments below seem to hinge on the belief that simply replacing the 7D with a new camera that at best is similarly featured will fill that market need for the next n years until their next set of models is introduced. Did it occur to you that much as the 60D user base (or those interested in that class of camera in general) wants and expect a step up for a similar or lower price point, those who prefer a higher end, premium crop camera might also expect a step up... particularly after nearly 4 years? Time marches on and the competitive environment demands innovation in ALL market segments.

You seem to want to assume that the potential improvements that could be made to the 7D (better sensor, improved IQ and ISO performance, more accurate and intuitive AF subsystem... and so on) do not have sufficient market demand to warrant an upgrade. Yet, how is it that you feel the 6D could fulfill that need in any way, shape, or form? It can't. And, the 70D is no upgrade for current 7D users. So you seem to be suggesting that the premium crop segment is dead. Umm... sorry bud, but I can't accept that and see absolutely no evidence that this is the case.

Canon saw the need for a highly featured, high end crop camera when it introduced the 7D. At the time, it was a breakthrough camera and even after nearly 4 years, there aren't many alternatives out there that are competitive. Near as I can tell, the camera has been pretty successful for them. I see no reason why Canon would all of a sudden see this segment as not lucrative enough to pursue further and refresh. In fact, introducing a 70D with the features it has is EXACTLY what I would have expected Canon to do, and IMHO, in no way does it suggest a major shift in Canon's positioning or direction for their crop line.

I'm sure you'll disagree... time will tell.

Bobn2 wrote:

Jerry-astro wrote:

Bobn2 wrote:

I doubt that 'everyone knows' that. I think a good few people will decide that the 70D is good enough for them and go for it. Similarly, quite a few who might have spend their money on a 7D MkII will have been tempted by a 6D. The question is, whether those sicking out for a 7D Mk II and nothing else are numerous enough to pay what will be a big R&D bill.

Rather than debate all the points with you, I'll focus on this one. Do you seriously believe that the 6D is a legitimate "upgrade" for a decent number of people who own a 7D now and who might be focused on capabilities that go beyond FF? Seriously? The 6D is an entry level FF camera with an entry level focus subsystem, entry level frame rate, and a host of other features missing from the much older 7D. I won't speak for others, but if I had a hankering to get into FF (which is highly questionable at this point), it would be the 5DMk3 I'd be going for, certainly not the 6D. I am unwilling to give up on the higher end capabilities of the 7D simply to gain access to the world of FF, at least for my needs. I won't even get into the issue of reach, lens replacement, etc. etc.

That is not the point. The word 'legitimate' is completely mis-chosen. Canon is allowed to configure their product range any way it likes, and it will do it so as to appeal to as wide a range of customers with as few models as possible. Mostly people are buying one camera, and they look to what makes the best overall match to their needs and desires. So, in a sense what Canon is doing is saying 'if someone has $2k to spend on a camera, what is most likely to make them spend it with Canon' and it looks like their answer was the 6D. Now they need to take care of those that want reach and high frame rates, and low and behold we see the 70D gain 1.7FPS and an action orientated AF system. So now they have two bases covered. That is obviously about expanding the market of the 70D, and the only market it is taking from is that of the 7D.

So, taking the position that Canon probably won't replace the 7D with another crop camera and will rely on its entry level FF camera as a "step up" is ... well ... patently absurd IMHO.

No, it is simply looking at it from the point of view of how a manufacturer would maximise profits rather than what an individual photographer believes that they 'need'.

Many serious photographers who are into birding, sports, and other forms of action photography not only require the more sophisticated features of the 7D but value the additional reach.

Which of the 'more sophisticated' features of the 7D will they not get from the 70D, apart from losing 1FPS.

I can't see Canon walking away from that market or trying to position the 70D as the replacement camera for those photographers. As nice as the 70D appears to be (IMHO), it's not really much of a step up (if at all) from the 7D and unless I were looking for a second camera, it's definitely not for me... nor is the 6D.

It isn't a 'step up'. Why would Canon be offering you a 'step up'? What they are interested in is maximising profit, and if one model will cover most of the area that two used to, then they can. With the 6D and 70D in the line, the number of buyers for a 7DII is considerably reduced from what it was when the 7D was announced,

BTW, the pattern you're seeing here, which is to borrow capabilities (better AF subsystem, higher MP/new sensor) from a higher end camera and introduce it first in a lower end model is something we've seen a number of times from Canon. There have been a number of times well prior to the introduction of the 7D where a new sensor first appeared in a Rebel model,

temporarily making the latest xxD inferior, at least in that respect.

Which times would that be? Only time is the 12.5MP sensor which only ever appeared in Rebels. 8MP, 10MP, 15MP and 18MP all saw first light of day in the top end APS-C model. So far as AF and other systems are concerned it has only ever been trickle down, never ever trickle up.

So, I view what Canon is doing with the 70D as a good preview of what they could decide to do with the 7DMk2 and portends well for a possibly very nice upgrade coming down the pike. Call me an optimist, but that's the way I see it, anyway.

Certainly you are entitled to your view, but I think the spec of the 70D says more likely 'no 7DII' than 'very high end 7DII'.

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Bob

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