Win8 vs Win7

Started Jun 10, 2013 | Discussions thread
VirtualMirage
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Re: stick with Win 7 if possible...
In reply to theswede, Jun 12, 2013

theswede wrote:

And how do you propose I find them on that start screen?

Windows Key + C, click on search. Or Windows key to get to the Start Screen, move mouse to right to bring up Charms, and select search. You will see this:

With exception to it being left to right instead of top to bottom, it is in the same hierarchy you would see in 7. If the application installation creates a Start folder, it will be under that "group" name, just like 7. The difference is that with 7 you have to view into those folders via highlighting or clicking and here it is already expanded.

The items on the far left were usually thrown at the bottom of All Programs in 7, here it is in the front since the installation programs didn't create Start folders for them.

Is that too hard? See, it isn't lost. The hierarchy is still there.

So I need to sit down and manually recreate the groups which the installer would do for me on Windows 7? Tell me, how do you propose I find out which software does what, so I can create the hierarchy manually? In the start menu they're already grouped by manufacturer and function so I can easily locate what I need.

You can and be more organized, or you can do what I showed you above and use the older layout Microsoft used. You just have more options now. While you prefer to organize by manufacturer, I prefer to organize by what they do.

I have no idea what they're named.

Sounds like then you have a problem. If you don't know what they are named, then how do you know what you are looking for.

You mean just like in Windows 7? Wow!

Wow! Sarcasm, there's a feature I have never seen before.

I absolutely was not. We're talking at least dozens of applications, some of which I use every week, some I use every few months, and none of which I really enjoy being reminded of exist when I don't need them for the moment.

The hierarchy of the start menu is perfect for engineering and science professional use. The amount of applications required is staggering. It's clear you (and most everyone) can't even comprehend the magnitude of this problem.

And neither can Microsoft.

Perfect maybe for you, but not for everybody. Again, see above on how to go back to the older hierarchy setup.

Good for a browser and Outlook. Not so good for engineering software.

Huh? So are you assuming that your apps will be full screen only in Windows 8?

And that organization comes for free in Windows 7. Why should I need to manually recreate it in Windows 8? Isn't that a problem I have a computer to solve for me?

You don't have to manually create it, you just didn't know where to look (providing you have actually used Windows 8). Manually creating your groups makes it exactly the way you see fit, not resorting to something that was forced upon you in previous iterations of the Windows OS.

Grouping and organizing is a waste of my time, not to mention I have no idea what the software does when it's just sitting in a pile on the start screen. I will have to dig through documents to figure out how to group it up.

Completely worthless.

So I take it your book shelves organize themselves too as well as everything in your house?  Or do you not have time for that either?

By dragging tiles around you can group them into columns.  Spacing it out a little further apart you will see a vertical line appear, this shows that it will create a new group.

In the bottom right hand corner of the screen there is a minus sign (-), click on that.  It will zoom the start screen out.  From here you can move whole groups of tiles.  If you wish to give your groups a name, right click the group and select the Name Group option.

And search is even more worthless as I have no clue what the software is named. Usually it's something like WizIndraEngineering.exe or some such. Or it may be named in German or Italian.

So the applications don't have names?  They only have their executable filename to go by?

In the computers we have purchased from Dell recently it's been about 50/50.

Sounds like a quality control issue, but easy enough to turn on.  That's not Microsoft's fault, nor is it Windows 8's.

Which is a wasted monitor.

How so? It doesn't stay like that all the time, only when you are in the Start screen.  Once you click on the desktop screen or run a desktop application both monitors return to desktop mode.  So both of my monitors are fully utilized just like they were in 7.

iOS and Android have visual cues for everything which is not natural sliding motions. Windows 8 does not. Hot corners are without cue. Sliding from the top down to list running applications has no cue. Closing a Metro app has no cue. Getting rid of a Metro app has no cue.

Nope.  How does someone know that swiping down on iOS brings up the notification bar or when two or when a hold hand is used you can switch between apps, etc.?  Those aren't natural ideas, but ones that people had to learn or stumble upon.

iOS and Android are just as confounding to close apps on.  iOS you have to double tap the home button then press and hold an app icon in the bottom.  Android you have to go into the menus a few layers deep to kill anything.  Windows keeps it resident in the background and will close it automatically if not used and the memory needs to be freed up.

That is exactly how they are confusing.

Really?!?  You do realize it is only the Metro apps that do this, not everything.  And those apps are tailored to work fine in full screen.

Provided you have one. My keyboard doesn't. I have no use for one.

I guess your SOL then.  Again, that's your problem that shouldn't be extended upon others.  Every new Windows PC out there has a Windows Key and they have had Windows Keys on keyboards since the early 90's.  Even Mac keyboards have an Apple key, which can also be used in Windows as a Windows Key.

Easy, but non-obvious, and adds unnecessary cognitive load. I have no desire to memorize arcane hot corners and keys to push to get out of applications I don't even want in the first place.

I will say that Microsoft could have done more to show these new methods to the end user. Remember the welcome tutorial that would pop up in the notification area on every fresh install of Windows XP? I remember finding that so annoying, but it was useful to the first timers out there.

I know of no-one it was useful for. People learn by following visual cues or skeumorphic expectations. Not by memorizing non-obvious spots or gesture.

And yet you think that the older Windows were this natural?  Really?  Try again, it was more likely due to years of using it that you became familiar with where everything is at and how it functions and not because it had visual cues or skeumorphic expectations.  The older Windows were NOT that obvious on how to get the most out of them.

Which is good, but hardly anything most people get much out of.

I beg to differ.  I have found it extremely useful.  In the IT world I have found lots of great use from it that the older Task Managers couldn't provide.  I wish my 2008 R2 servers at work had such a detailed manager for taking a quick peak to diagnose something.  But since it doesn't, I have to revert to Perfmon or another monitoring utility.  I am surprised as an engineer you haven't found the same usefulness from it.  Then again, you might not be that kind of engineer.

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Paul

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