The BIGGEST problem with my DP2M....

Started Apr 30, 2013 | Discussions thread
richard stone
Senior MemberPosts: 1,576
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Re: The BIGGEST problem with my DP2M....
In reply to zxaar, May 6, 2013

zxaar wrote:

In my opinion it is stupid to conclude anything from a comparison in which one image is shot at f11 and another at f5.6.  If anything that Lin Evans thread has proved than that is that Lin does not understand photography and how lenses and sensors behave.  Only an amateur photographer  would not know that at f11 lenses are not at their best and there are diffraction etc issues involved.

richard stone wrote:

To begin, I would refer to a post from above, in which you suggest that even if Lin is right (in his comparison of a Nikon image and a DPxM image...) you do not accept the results because it does not look right to you. That was sort of my point.

Second, I do not think there is any hope of convincing the "critics" and I would not make the attempt. The critics have their own reasons for saying what they say, and they clearly "see" what they want to see. This falls into the category of trying to argue people out of opinions that they were not argued into.

Third, to address your point more directly, no, I do not think that more tests are necessary, because there have already been plenty of "tests" done by experts and they pretty much all reached the same result. DP Review, as I read the report, generally concluded that the DP2M was at least equal to and probably better than the D800 in lower ISO images. Michael Reichman and Quentin Bargate and others have essentially concluded the same thing, and noted as well that the DP2M images had a certain unique look, one that they liked. Third, I would propose that another real "test" is is one that Lin Evans personally did and reported, long ago, in which he had (as I recall) art directors choose, among comparable and similar images, the images they liked the best, and the Sigma images were more likely to be chosen.

As a secondary part to this, the problem is that unless one is very careful, it is extremely difficult to not "see" what we want to see, and that includes making trivial things important. You are very sensitive to artifacts and halos. Not everyone is. Some people are so sensitive to purple blotches that it ruins everything for them. Similarly, if I can be permitted to (continue to) generalize, some people and their images simply have no need for the probable benefits of the Foveon sensor. That is, many images are simply not based on the detail that such a sensor provides. Who needs such detail in sport pictures, unless the image somehow benefits from that? Maybe in the scheme of the purpose of the images, it is more important to simply get the shot, and it is very dark? Use the D800, etc.

So no, at this stage I do not think that another test is needed. Only a troll would argue, or even suggest, that the DP2M is somehow not a superb camera. (Now, my view on this includes a conclusion that Sigma, as the maker of that camera, gets some serious credit too.) Thus, we could have a discussion about whether the DP2M was an ideal tool for all uses but really, even in that discussion, the idea is that talented people, and desperate ones too, find a way to use cameras well in unusual circumstances.

Also, as noted in this thread and others, the point is as well that many users report they enjoy using the camera and they enjoy seeing the images from it. Isn't that what this is all about? Trying to tell someone that they should not enjoy their gear is just bizarre. What purpose is served by arguing with someone who says his DP2M image is sharper than from (for example) his Nikon 7000? Who cares either way? In that discussion there is the distinct possibility that the DP2M really is better. And again, this is a "gear" forum, so laments about images not being artistic or the users having no talent are kind of pointless.

Richard

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::> I make spelling mistakes. May Dog forgive me for this.

My point in referring to Lin's observation, which he did not describe as a test, was that David sets up some strange approaches to issues, which he may or may not recognize himself. David wants to make this evaluation of the sensor scientific... Which is simply beyond what most people have the time or energy to undertake. However, DP Review did some tests and they use reasonable standards and they have experience. MR at Luminous Landscape also has experience with many cameras. They both liked the DP2M. As did Quentin Bargate. Others, who post on this forum, do not, but then, in no way can they claim any serious expertise. Thus, who cares what they think? Let them buy Fuji. (And I like the new Fujis, too.)

If you don't like the Sigma images, buy and use the camera you enjoy. But it is interesting how many people simply like the Sigma look.

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