The BIGGEST problem with my DP2M....

Started Apr 30, 2013 | Discussions thread
Raist3d
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Re: This reads absurd.
In reply to Lin Evans, May 4, 2013

Lin Evans wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

Lin Evans wrote:

Hi David,

I wouldn't expect you to like the results and to find myriad "faults" with my conclusions and/or methodology. But the bottom line is, that as I said, it wasn't a "test." It is what it is, a simple observation.

I didn't choose F11, the camera's firmware did that. The frame was taken in "program" mode. The exposure, aperture and shutter speed were all chosen by the firmware so this represents a very "typical" D7000 shot.

This reads very absurd. How many times it has been said on a per Sigma model basis to set and pick other settings because the defaults are off. Look at the recommendation of Kendall for example with current Merrill to overexpose.

What has what you just said above to do with "anything" pertaining to using a D7000 Nikon???

That you are going by what the D7000 picked, which is not necessarily optimal at all, the same way the DP2M is so recommended in many situations to not be used at default settings (or many other Sigma cameras with other settings- like SD15 and its color mode, etc.).

You then decide to make a judgement based on complete automatic as if that represented really what the camera could do and judged accordingly.  It's a bit like taking the Sigma out of the box, taking a snap and that being not so good in say JPEG, someone complained about it as if the camera wasn't very good. Would that be an accurate statement based on that?

This hardly represents a "typical D7000" shot- there are indeed many settings also to tweak that "automatic something" and typical depends also on the photographer and what they are doing. What if they are shooting in manual mode or aperture priority?

Now you are going to tell me what a "typical D7000 shot" consists of.

No, I am telling you that hardly represents one.  It's even more ridiculous to reach a conclusion based purely on automatic settings on what the camera can do.

Do you "have" a Nikon D7000?

No.

Do you have extensive experience with a Nikon D7000?

I wouldn't say extensive but I have experience with the D7000.

Do you have a DP2 Merrill?

No.

Do you have extensive experience with a Sigma DP2 Merrill?

I do have experience with the DP2M and DP3M.

If not, you are simply not qualified to say what a "typical" shot is with either.

Complete nonsense.

I just told you "specifically" what I did and you want to "argue" about it. Sorry Ricardo, there is nothing "absurd" about placing a camera in "Program" mode and pressing the shutter. Millions of people do it every day.

No, the last part is not absurd. What is absurd is that you use that to judge what the camera can do.

Go find someone else to start a stupid argument with, I'm not buying...

There's no argument. Your claim falls pretty flat based on what you said. I was merely adding on top of that, that it's a bit amusing considering how much leeway the Sigma is given then precisely by NOT using it with mere default settings!

Finally if you really have the experience you claim with the D7000 you should be quite shocked at the false claims that it has less DR than a Sigma, problems with shadows, but that's another point.

Lin

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I applied exactly the same amount of "sharpening" with the same tool to each image so any "mysterious" variable was distributed to each in precisely the same way.

I've already commented that Nikon jpgs are notorious for being "soft." Could I have made the Nikon image ultimately sharper and with slightly more detail by shooting in RAW, converting and carefully manipulating the variables as far as focal length, aperture, etc.? Sure. But then it would not have been "typically" what an average user could "expect."  The majority of people using the D7000 will put the camera in "P" mode and press the shutter.

[]

This again reads completely absurd. Would you say the majority will simply put the Sigma on JPEG mode and shoot in P&S? Is that a reasonable way to assess what the camera can do?  Either you are talking about what a typical user would do or what the camera as a photographer tool can do.  Either camera could be used so wrong as to make it look worse than mobile phones three years ago.

[]

What was shown is exactly what a typical user would see. I think the word "dramatic" difference obtains here. The comparison is a 14 megapixel Foveon sensor against a very good 16 megapixel Bayer sensor. I don't think the differences are "grossly exaggerated" at all in my experience. I shoot thousands of images with the D7000 and am very familiar with what it can and can't do. Is the lens on the DP2 M better than the lens on the Nikon? Undoubtedly. Could the best available lens for the D7000 do better? Undoubtedly. Could carefully choosing the aperture, shooting in RAW and converting and careful post processing of the Nikon substantially improve the result? Undoubtedly. But the purpose of posting the images was to demonstrate what "typically" a user can expect. That's why I converted the DP2 M totally in "default" X3F mode. I tweaked the Nikon image to get the best from it that I could get. I find the differences fairly typical - that's my experience and my opinion. As I said, I believe the differences are "dramatic" in my experience.

Best regards,

Lin

[]

best

Dave

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Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- I photograph black cats in coal mines at night...
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“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” - George Orwell

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