Confirmed: No practical advantage to removing D7100 AA filter

Started Apr 25, 2013 | Discussions thread
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Daisy AU
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Re: Confirmed: No practical advantage to removing D7100 AA filter
In reply to marike6, Apr 27, 2013

marike6 wrote:

Shunda77 wrote:

marike6 wrote:

Shunda77 wrote:

You need to look at the data and try and understand why results may be different between a full frame sensor and an APS-C sensor.

I don't "need" to do anything, I understand quite well about pixel densities, and so forth.

It's just funny how measurebaters want to spend all day talking about brick wall tests, minor differences in high ISO, diffraction, banding, etc.  Then when the RAW Studio Test scene answers a very specific question like the AA-filter question (but they don't like the answer), they want to say "yes but in the real world".

Are you kidding? I should trust you and the cheerleaders here over an established, professional review site like DPR?

I'm not asking your to trust me or anyone else.  I couldn't care less.  I'm just stating my opinion, just like you.

But when you are a "professional review site" as you say, you'd expect DPR not to get the D7100's high ISO performance wrong, where they placed the D7100 near the bottom for high ISO performance.  That doesn't inspire much confidence.    If the D7100 high ISO ability is "near the bottom of APS-C sensor cameras" as DPR claims in the review, then so is the D7000, D5200, and D5100 high ISO performance "near the bottom" for APS-C sensor cameras.

Fortunately we have sites like DxOMark who know how to properly test cameras for low-light/high ISO performance.

Let's see what else has DPR, your so-called "professional review site" claimed over the past year?  Here's a good one: "for the majority of users to get better IQ than the Olympus OMD you need to go to FF" (From DPR OMD review - paraphrasing is mine).

If you want to read the above statement about the OMD as the truth because DPR said it, that's fine.  I prefer to analyse IQ performance form cameras that I own, and to learn from other professional testing sites.  I've used an E-PL5 and a D7000 quite a lot, and I can tell you for sure that the E-PL5/OMD doesn't have as good IQ as the D7000.  Not does it have as good IQ as the K-5, D5100, D5200, X-Pro1, X100, NEX-7, et al. But DPR would have people believe that it does as they are using a confusing wording like "for the majority of users".  It the same kind of caveat as "real-world" in their D7100 AA-filter discussion.  For the "majority of users" the to get better IQ than the OMD, you need to go to FF is similar to "The lack of OLPF doesn't make a difference in real-world, practical terms".   Either the OMD IQ is as good as the best of APS-C or it is not.  "For the majority of users" has nothing to do with it.  Either the lack of OLPF in the D7100 makes a difference or it doesn't.  "Real world usage" is an assumption with a huge number of variables and differing interpretations for it to be useful.  Like the phrase "for the majority of users", the phrase "real-world usage" is inextricably tied to DPR's bias.  And as such, it's not useful.  No two photographers shoot the exact same subject, with the exact same technique.  So how does DPR know what "real-world usage" is?  They are making too many assumptions about what "real-world shooting is" for such a nebulous term to be useful for potential D7100 customers.

The evidence is overwhelming, yet this nonsense persists, it is quite remarkable.

For more discerning users there is a difference, as others above have pointed out.

No there isn't, it is an imaginary advantage that is misleading people and not helping those who genuinely want to know what this camera is like.

And talking about "more discerning users" is utterly ridiculous in that a discerning user wouldn't bother with imaginary advantages.

As it stands there are other outstanding features of this camera that makes this discussion largely irrelevant, but we shouldn't pretend it is more than what it is.

DPR gave the damned thing a gold award and people are still complaining it isn't good enough. Let the D7100's real merits stand, not the imaginary advantages pushed by fanboys.

Again, if you can see that D7100 images are sharper than D5200 images in the RAW Studio Test at f8 (a diffraction limited aperture), you can be sure that D7100 images are sharper than the D5200 images at f4. Amadu Diallo even says in the Review comments that "yes if you shoot at f3.5 on a 50 1.4, you will see a difference".  Because there is not "practical" advantage to you or DPR doesn't mean there is not one to me or anyone else.  You cannot make assumptions about users of such a camera as if they are amateurs or beginners shopping for a D3100 and kit lens. This is a high end / enthusiast DSLR, so it's not a stretch to thin such users might have a set of great Nikkors.

If the added acutance has "no practical advantage" for you, that's another issue.   I'm not here to convince anybody, just stating my view like anyone else.  I don't even shoot APS-C, nor am I interested in whether or not people like or hate the D7100. People are going to use what they can afford, or what gives them the best possible images.

I just find the sensational headline "Confirmed" about as silly as it get's in there forums.  Nothing is confirmed other than the fact that DPR has it's own biases, it's own conclusions.  And like their flat out wrong opinion that "for the majority of users to get better IQ than the OMD you need to go to FF", their absurd conclusion that the lack of OLPF in the D7100 is dependent on how people shoot in some arbitrary "real world usage" so that means that "essentially there is no difference".

Agree. Take this from a beginner/amateur/hobbiest:  Even I can see the difference!  Would I upgrade from my D7000?  No.  Would I buy the D7100 over the D7000 if I was purchasing today instead of 12 months ago?  Yes. Mainly because of the 24MP and not because of the removal of the low pass filter.  The images coming out of the D7100 are better than the D7000, but not enough to now ditch my D7000.  Will wait for a D8000  

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Daisy AU - Brisbane

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