Are the constant aperture Panasonic lenses worth it (and are you wating for Olympus?)

Started Apr 3, 2013 | Discussions thread
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Jorginho Forum Pro • Posts: 10,518
Re: Very depressing

Najinsky wrote:

Jorginho wrote:

first of all: I am not perfect at all and indeed do the same thing. I said it is easier to do so (judging). When someone does not understand me, I reread my messages sometiems and sometimes Ihave the sam kneejerk reaction like most of us

The point is this phrase:

"The Panasonic 35-100 is $1,500. It should be a bit better than it is. Nothing to do with being a perfectionist, just comparing it to the standards set by it competitors and one of my most used lenses. And certainly not ridiculous to expect excellent performance all round from a lens of this price."

I appreciate the olive branch, and the long message to explain your thinking. It's good that you take time to explain, sometimes others are terse, dismissive and non committal. So I really appreciate the time you've taken.

But it doesn't automatically get you off the hook. You, and people like you (let's call it YAPLY) are spoiling my enjoyment of this site. Continually.

Well, the way I see it you categorise people and than judge them top be awful. There is no need to put people in boxes and than judge rarely brings up something good.

The only one who can spoil things for you is yourself. If it were "us" then we would spoil things for everybody. But that does not seem to be the case. You think whatever thought or feeling comes up when you read "our" replies is correct. If you take a step back, you'll see it is just a thought. You can examine the thought and the emotion it evokes ifyou take a step back. You can change it if you like. If you think you are intrisically connected to your thought and your thought is corrct, than you can come to your conclusion that there is a "me" and the "others" and the others are causing you harm or something similar. It is you who is causing that, automatically.

So I need to decide how I respond. Do I abandon this site and find somewhere else, leaving this place to YAPLY, or do I try to make some kind of stand.

Making things black and white in my view does not help you at all: Me and Yaply and Abandoning the site or takign a stand. makign things balck and white is indeed making things very simple. It is clear. Good and bad etc. But is it correct? Aren't there more choices you think? Abandoning this thread or the whole site??

You could also try not to think your emotional response (I do not mean this in a dramatic way) is caused by some others. You could even try not to value that feeling but seeing it in a neutral way, form a distance and describe what you feel for yourself. Without saying it is right or wrong.
Why do I feel this way and why don't others? Try not to categorise yourself and the people around you to make easier choices. Just try to keep it neutral.
I perosnally think, like I said, that taking a stand on these to my mind very trivial things in life, is not very helpfull at all. In the end, they do not matter that much. It seems very simple: people have different opinions on about so many things, why be bothered oif you encounter them. Even time and time again. Understanding to me means in the end things get much easier. I can understand and stil have very different thoughts on the same issues.

Try to nudge it towards the kind of place I wan't it to be. For sure that might not be welcome, I might find myself isolated and outnumbered, and leaving may ultimately be the right way to go, but I'm not quite there yet.

You see, it's my forum too, and just because I find myself on the wrong side of group-think more often than not, doesn't mean I'm ready to capitulate.

Man, I am in the same boat here. Do you think there are many people that try to understand pedophiles for example? Only bringin up some understanding for these people, like saying that I firmly believe no one chose their sexual orientation evokes very strong responses. I understand that too, but I don't mind being the subject of peoples anger. Most of the time, this arguments get calmer as long as I stay calm and get people out of their emotional response and into more rational responses. Etc. I have many contrarian thoughts, but I rarely have some remaining issues with peopel wjhom I argue with. it does happen on occasion, I accept that.
There is no reason to retreat, but sometimes some convictions of myself and others are so different, it is better not to discuss them as it is probably fruitless.

Much of the group-think here is abject, juvenile, inexperienced nonsense; it's not even debatable because a debate requires an open mind, and an open mind can't surface until you've learned how to throw off the shackles of group-think and peer pressure.

I think the first sentence shows not too many signs of an open mind and I do not think you are very open minded. People. like me, come up with arguments why they think you are too critical. To me it seems you are very sensitive to at least that. May be you are sensitive to other things where people disagree with you, I don't know. I don't see how MArty's response was juvenile in any way or how my response is. I take you very serious, but I also think for the reasons I gave you are being unrealistic here.

In reality, group-think is just a polite word for a gang, and gang is just a polite word for a mob, and mob is just a polite word for a collection of vicious thugs who like to exercise control over a group, for people to cede to their will; regardless of right/wrong, sense/nonsense. Group-think means it's right because some thug says it's right and they'll attack anyone who disagrees, backed by their pawns.

All these words you mention are not synoniem. Again, I feel it is you how makes a bog pile out of very different things and say: it is all the same. The group over here is not homgenous at all. For instance: I can disagree strongly with Marty about what the USA represents or on Global Warming, but I can agree with him about his thoughts on the Fuji XE1 or the lenses for m43s. No need to be angry or put Marty in a little box so I can easily and continually dismiss him as someone who is from another, bad group.

Too many here seem to have simply not yet learned how to use their greatest gift, their mind. Instead they're content just to feel that they fit in, so they kick the stranger who got hit over the head and knocked to the floor. It's low risk and comforts them into believing they are part of the group. But they're never really part of the group, because social groups are amorphous, and those who seek favour in them are simply the easiest to manipulate into becoming the pawns, and not even the good pawns, the sacrificial ones.

What I see actually, in this argument, is someone who responds to jhis emotions and not to facts. In my mind, your are so caught up in judging and labelling people that you are not using your mind there at all. It seems automated and based on how bad you feel after these responses. May be you could try to use your mind a bit more, instead pointing to others how they should behave or what they do according to you. You can only change yourself. I do not have the same emotions to this like you do, so this means people are not doping things factually. Of so, they would evoke the exact same responses in everyone. But tjhey demonstrably do not. So it is something specific to you and somehting specific to me that casuses very different responses tovery similar reactions of others towards us.
May be you can try to reread messages and research when you feel emotional, feel people are against you, ganging up on you but do not try to see it as correct or may be do not try to see it as "bad" but as "different" or a simple "I do not disagree with this message"". Instead of "how pathetic". If you do not understand someones reaction you can simply say "hmm..I don't understasnd that response". Instead of labelling as abject etc.
I think that is how you could use your mind, be a lot less irritated and less aimed at "being right". If so, why is it so important ot be right and get that acknowledged?

The constant Aperture zooms are very nice lenses, excellent at F/4, but a bit below this at F/2.8. For the price I was expecting a bit better (better than 14% resolution loss from F4/ to F/2.8. Lets quantify that and say 10% or less, that's about where my expectation was).

Again: that is what you think. I think that compared ot reviews of similar lenses in price, 353mm FL etc all of those lenses have some flaws. I gave plenty examples. So to me, the price is fair even though I would liek it very much if they could sell it for 900 dollar.

Now, finally a last word on that..if I look at ebay I see that lenses indeed being sold for 1050-1100 dollars. 1100 dollar is with free shipping. To put that in an EBAY perspective: I could not find the Nikon f2.8 70-200 II series for any cheaper than 2300 dollars. I am talking about new lenses. So in reality, if you are willing to buy on ebay, you can get it a lot cheaper.

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