Contituation of the Versatility thread

Started Apr 5, 2013 | Discussions thread
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Re: Contituation of the Versatility thread
In reply to Biggs23, Apr 5, 2013

Biggs23 wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

Biggs23 wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

Let us look at the definition you quoted: “Turning with ease from one thing to another”

My idea of that camera: Sony NEX-6 or similar. But let us look into it closer. Sony NEX-6, in addition to native lenses, just about any lens out there can be used if it will cover at least an APS-C sensor. To me, that is pretty close to having a “universal mount”: Versatility.

So you have to carry multiple adapters for all those different lenses in differing lens mount, right? That makes your camera carrying requirement much larger and with many more pieces. That severely hurts your argument.

Nope. Obviously, you didn't understand the rest of my post (or never bothered to read it before responding). Just to help you get the point, multiple adapter is akin to mutliple lenses. I may use one adapter for a variety of lenses, or leave an adapter each on the lens. But, ultimately, I pick based on how I want to use my camera.

I read and understood. You said you could use an adapter to use lenses of different mounts. But each different mount requires a different adapter. Thus, if you want to use multiple lenses all of a different mount you must carry an adapter for each. Or am I wrong? Is there a magical adapter that allows the use of every other mount all at the same time?

Versatility lets you pick. You can choose to leave an adapter on every lens, or just use one adapter depending on your lens collection.

Most of these non-native lenses will necessitate manual focus, which is actually a strength of the system. You have Focus Peaking, Focus Magnify, Tiltable LCD screen and EVF. The camera will meter: Versatility.

Let me get this straight, MF is a STRENGTH?

You bet. Practically 100% of my photography is with manual focus, except on some occasions when I might use AF. I think I posted images from NBA game taken with AF and MF in the other thread(s).

100% of YOUR photography may very well be. But arguing that MF is MORE versatile and a STRENGTH for most users is hogwash.

I didn't say MF is more versatile. I said, manual focusing is a strength of NEX cameras, which adds to the value. I certainly don't think a versatile system will limit your options, rather afford ways to expand it. In fact, I picked up a NEX primarily to enjoy manual photography, and discovering along the way the versatility that make them replacement for DSLR/DSLT bodies.

You realize that you can MF with a dSLR too, right? I recognize that focus peaking is a big thing but it's certainly NOT more versatile to MF, even with focus peaking.

I wouldn't buy a DSLR today, much less for Manual Focus.

I wouldn't buy a mirrorless today, much less for AF. What's that comment have anything to do with the topic at hand?

In fact you shouldn't buy a mirror-less camera if you must rely on AF at all times. Only if you prefer to expand the camera usage beyond a limited set of options, that you may want to consider it, as I did (and only to discover later that the AF aspect isn't missing either).

Some of the non-native mounts also allow for Auto Focus. It is for this reason, effort is being put in developing such adapters as we’ve recently seen from Metabones (with, or without AF). Then there is another tool that not only allows expansion of options for AF lenses, it literally transforms the AF system, from Minolta/Sony A-mount. Sports/Action photography, covered well: Versatility.

But not as well as a dSLR. So versatile, yes, but less so.

There are several points in the argument you responded to. Which one are you alluding to? Definitely not non-native mounts with AF, or is it? Heck, many DSLRs don't even support AF with their own mount depending on sensor size. Or, won't even meter properly.

All FF cameras that I know of will AF with any native lens that isn't a dedicated MF. I was responding to the concept of AF in general, which same generation FF dSLR's are better at than mirrorless cameras are.

If your option is limited to AF, then you have no choice. You're not looking for versatility, you're looking for something that meets your shorter list of must haves.

As for Sport/Action photography, I enjoy that aspect of photography and I'm not the one complaining. You don't, but you're complaining.

I'm not complaining about anything. I think you're confusing complaining with discussing.

You're complaining that I couldn't take a NEX and shoot sports with it. Or, are you agreeing that I could?

Heading to the park for a walk? To a family dinner without lugging a bag or a camera hanging on the neck? Put 20mm f/2.8 pancake on NEX-6, you are covered (weight: 415g, < 1 lb. Size: pocketable). Street shooting? Put the relatively small 35mm f/1.8 (weight: 500g, just over 1 lb. Size: acceptable). A companion to bike through the mountains? Even the ultra-wide zoom (10-18 f/4) is tiny and light (225g). Want 10mm to 35mm versatility? You’re looking at net weight of the system (10-18, 20mm and 35mm lenses, plus body) at 795g… less than the body-only weight of a Full Frame DSLR. And in fact, the system itself is modular, that a person can choose to put a lens each in two pockets and skip the bag, to take advantage of: Versatility.

I can do all of those things easily with a dSLR, too. Is it larger? Sure. Is is heavier? Yep. Is the quality better and are there more lens options and is the quality better and is shooting easier and... all yes as well.

Actually, size, cost, weight are the key points made above. If you ignore all that... I rest my case. As for lens choices, virtually any lens you can put on your DSLR, I can use on my NEX. Can the opposite be done?

I've long admitted that mirrorless cameras do have some advantages. It's just that those advantages are incredibly overshadowed by the disadvantages.

Not for my money.

As for putting any lens on, what lens am I lacking in a native mount for FF?

Re-read my point.

The only reason that NEX (or similar) needs to put on other lenses is because not enough lenses have been developed for the native mount.

Not necessarily. Many people buy NEX because they are able to use their old and new lenses from other systems. Also because one can find impressive values from the past, and have explore their photography skills with it. These mirror-less systems are fantastic tools towards that effect. I am one of these people.

Here is the other side. I like options. For example, I could have picked Samyang 8mm f/3.5 Fisheye lens for A-mount and used on NEX without an issue. I picked the 8mm f/2.8 Fisheye for E-mount (smaller and lighter).

I could have picked Sony 35mm f/1.8 OSS for E-mount. I use Sony 35mm f/1.8 for A-mount instead. I could pick Tamron or Sony 18-200 OSS E-mount for travel zoom. I plan on using Sigma 18-250 OS A-mount instead.

In other words, I can pick and choose without much regard to mount itself, but what makes the most sense to me, with multiple options.

Want to shoot sports or birds in flight? Get a Sony/Minolta A-mount lens of your choice (FF or APS-C), put LA-EA2 adapter, and you’ve got a system that can focus continuously (even while shooting at 10 FPS). And yes, you can use either the EVF OR the LCD without losing performance, per need: Versatility.

Yep, versatile. But still not as versatile as a FF setup. I don't need an adapter and I can focus MORE accurately and continuously at 10FPS too.

I do need an adapter with NEX, to add to its functionality. If I don't need super fast PDAF, I can leave the adapter home, and enjoy the beauty of a small camera. That is versatility.


Now, can you back up yuor claim about focusing more accurately and continuously at 10 fps with the gear you have?

What do I need to back up? I can do it with the gear I own. What details are needed?

Why kind of "details" are expected in a photography forum?

That you can literally leave in your pockets when going for a casual walk?

When did I say that, exactly? You have a terrible habit of implying or outright stating that I said things I did not.

I didn't say you did, but that is the point you'd made an attempt to address.

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