DP1, DP2 & DP3 color rendition: same or different? The truth revealed :)

Started Mar 29, 2013 | Discussions thread
unknown member
(unknown member)
Like?
One last point and one more remark
In reply to vbd70, Mar 30, 2013

vbd70 wrote:

mroy wrote:

mroy,

indeed, the truth about the assumption I set out to prove.

My test was aimed at seeing if there were any differences between the DP1, DP2 and DP3 Merrill, not at proving anything absolute about the colour rendition of any of these three cameras.

As a scientist, you should know that one way to prove an assumption is to build a test case; I did so using Auto WB, Flash WB and Custom WB, which IMHO were enough to see whether there were in fact differences or not between the rendition of these three cameras. There are.

Indeed there are: between your three DPM and in this particular test.

Exactly, which I and probably the 99% of people here will take as enough proof even without testing any combination of every DP1, DP2 and DP3 on the planet under every possible conditions

Of course, it is possible that - say - under incandescent WB there are NO differences at all between the cameras, but something tells me that this is not very likely. As a scientist, you are familiar with Ockham's razor of course.

Ockham's razor, or in short: 'amongst competing hypotheses to explain a certain fact, one should favour the hypothesis which makes the fewest assumptions' is not a valid principle to determine scientific truth.

No, but when the level of certainty required is as low as what we need here, Ockham's razor helps

By the way, assuming the existence of manufacturing tolerances, even if Sigma AIMED at producing EXACTLY EQUAL cameras, that would be impossible in practice. So there, I proved my point: the colours of the DP1, DP2 and DP3 differ, even if by the slightest...

That's a very good point: tolerances.

Manufacturing tolerances, appreciation tolerances, colour perception tolerances - I could go on.

So: I proved that there are in fact differences under three different WB; my eyes (even without a thorough test), tells me that there are differences even under other WB in casual shooting - where casual means "real world", no charts - so I assume that these differences that I proved true under three particular conditions, if seen under the naked eye under other conditions, would be there under these conditions as well. More, one of the WB I used is CUSTOM WB, which should theoretically output the best results (and it does, though there are still differences).

Custom WB does not automatically output the best result - all it does is adjust WB to match the white / grey of the referent.

Saying the best results, of course, I meant the best results for the purpose of the test. But of course you knew that

Not perfect science, but close enough for me; especially seeing the argument we are talking about - are the cameras in fact different - which is trivial compared to, say, the rigour one needs to test nuclear fission Relax, the colour output of the cameras IS different; I accept this, after my little experiment, and will do so unless you prove me otherwise... you, of curse, can believe whatever you want, not a problem for me.

Fair enough - especially since I only have the DP2M.

And my experience with the DP2M, since August last year and hundreds and hundreds of pictures: colours with the DP2M are not an issue at all for me.

H Bowman for instance will disagree - but that's fine. I don't claim that what I see has to be true for everybody, especially when it comes to colour.

You see, the point of my test was exactly that: silencing a lot of the noise about this issue, and a lot of the "my eyes are better than yours" kindergarten talks. Let's say that my little experiment is more than scientific enough and produce more than enough truth when compared to that...

I couldn't agree more:

By the way, in a way this is all moot if you talk about absolute colour rendition, not camera-relative one as we did so far. Talking absolute colour rendition, to me the thing is very simple: with adequate PP skills, you can turn the colours of any file pretty much any way you please. Certain cameras make it easier to get from A to B than others, but if you can drive, you will get there eventually.

Oh by the way, you are of course aware that it would be practically impossible to prove my starting assumption under ALL possible lights and WB combination ever present anywhere on Earth, don't you agree...? Unless you have infinite time and resources, that is.

Exactly - which is why I was pointing out the rather bold use of truth (as in 'the truth revealed').

Ah now we are talking philosophy, not science. But let's get back to science: let's say that I state the truth IS that the DP1, DP2 and DP3 Merrill output different colours under same shooting conditions. Just prove me wrong: it's way easier for you to find that one case that disproves the theory, than it is for me to prove it valid in all cases, so you shall thank me, you have the easy job

Best,

Vieri

All in the spirit of that most elusive goal: truth

And in the spirit of intellectual exchanges, which I find a lot more stimulating than truth - which, unless we agree on the meaning of the word first, doesn't even exist as a quantity per se.

And, although I'm in danger of repeating myself: I enjoy your photography!

Hey, thank you so very much! At the end, this is all that matters...

Best,

Vieri

Cheers

Michael

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Post (hide subjects)Posted by
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
(unknown member)
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum PPrevious NNext WNext unread UUpvote SSubscribe RReply QQuote BBookmark post MMy threads
Color scheme? Blue / Yellow