*** 5Dc vs 60D resolution test ***

Started Mar 17, 2013 | Discussions thread
qianp2k
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Re: What
In reply to Mako2011, Mar 21, 2013

Mako2011 wrote:

qianp2k wrote:

schmegg wrote:


I have not touched any sliders at all apart from the zoom slider.

I have no idea who you did that. But why you even tried to zoom 3x or 4x?

To examine detail of course. That should be obvious.

a) LOL, DPR reviews don't use 300 or 400% cropped, and nobody posts a 3x or 4x enlaged photo in internet; b) no mention I even don't know how he actually did that.

But let's compare at 100% cropped size.

It is clear, even with these images (which were shot wide open with the 60D but stopped down one stop with the 5D) that the 60D resolves more detail.

Not true at all provided you don't twist my photos and processed default out of RAW.

They are the default processed files.

They are not. Anyone can follow my default steps to duplicate the result but not yours.

They are default. I followed your steps and got the same result as schmegg depicted here.

My steps have no 3x or 4x cropping, lol.

Some examples where this is easy to see - be sure to view these at full size to see the full effects ...

1. Look at the detail in the hair, look at the eyes, look at the lips, look at the curved 'frame' around him ...

This is thru your twist and I have no idea how you did that. No idea why you view at 3x or 4x sizes as simply not we view at 100% cropped, not on prints.

I view at that size so I can see the detail rendered. It's very simple.

LOL. Nobody post a 300% or 400% cropped or print from that enlargement. What's the point before I even question if you did correctly?

I thought we we're comparing resolution as the thread states. Why wouldn't you zoom in to do that?

Yes we are so I published 100% cropped.

At 100% the difference is visible, but less easy to see - and it's more easy to be fooled into thinking that artifacts due to higher acutance and lower resolution are actual detail - when they are not. It's a bit like the effect noise has on perceived sharpness really - it's an illusion - not real detail.

We can see different at 100% clearly. Natural sharpness (as I doesn’t even add any software sharpness) is not artifacts. As a matter of fact, 60D already display lots more artifacts. You're right by your twisting it's an illusion, lol.

"Natural sharpness" what kind of term is that...can you get back on the topic of resolution? The 5D pics are full of large pixel related artifacts. Clear in the RAW file.

Natural sharpness is default from sensor/lens without any software sharpening. LOL, you're so biased that actually 60D are full of artifacts such as purple fringe. I used zero NR and zero sharpening in processing and 5D files obviously better.

I'd say at average viewing sizes the difference is moot - certainly not the order of magnitude in favour of the 5D that you endlessly claim on these forums.

What's your definition of average viewing size?

MTF defines it depending on the measurement used. Also defined when referring to DOF

You didn't answer my question above correctly. I am talking what average viewing size from schemegg?

Here is the real one at 100% cropped and I upsampling 5D to match to 60D size at 5184x3456 thru CS6 Bicubic enlargement, default from ACR7, 0 sharpening and 0 NR.

Here are steps that everyone can duplicate:

  • load CR2 files into Photoshop CS6 or CS7
  • Use default setting, move sharpening bars all the way to left (zero sharpening).
  • Move NR bars all the way to left (zero NR);
  • Now in PS window, upsampling 5D files to 60D size (5184x3456) by using Bicubic enlargement (best for enlargement).
  • Generate JPEG by using +12 max quality

Anyone can download my original RAW and duplicate the default processing that I used. 60D photo left and 5D photo right

Yes, and anyone can also simply zoom in using the zoom slider to see the actual amount of detail recorded - rather than relying on these very small and post processed new samples you have provided here.

No idea how you do it. But I only view or print at 100% cropped size.

That makes it harder to examine resolution if you limit yourself in that way.

pretty clear to me, and hope he and you don't cause a delusion that 24-105L is better than 24-70L II, LOL.

2. In this example it is clear that the 5D was completely unable to resolve the chain-wire mesh in the fence, whereas the 60D has managed to capture it reasonable well (considering how far away this was!) ...

Again this is your twisted result. No ideal how you did that.

Here is the real one at 100% cropped and I upsampling 5D to match to 60D size

Wow, what a big difference and the one below is the authentic one from two cameras.

3. In this example the DO NOT ENTER sign in the 60D image is readable or close to it whereas the 5D has just rendered a mess. Also, look at the edge on the sign between the red and white areas. Also look at the edges of the slanted timber support in the top left-hand corner - the 60D has done OK but the 5D has rendered a staircase ...

Again this is your twisted one.

Here is the real one at 100% cropped and I upsampling 5D to match to 60D size.

Those three examples are just a few of the many areas where it is obvious. The more you look, the more you see.

Please don't twist, then you will see exactly as above and everyone would see that.

Not twisted at all - just enlarged so the difference is easily visible.

LOL, at 100% cropped above and I even upsampling 5D to 6D file size, I already can see the difference, and I am not alone.

You do seem alone in this case...even up sampling the minor 60D resolution advantage is clear.

On brick wall where I focus upon. 5D resolves details noticebly better and sharper (default).

Sorry you don't like it.

Sure if you twisted it.

Looking at your raw files (thanks for providing) no twisting going on.

if you look naturally without a twisting or just trying to make your way.

It's a shame the 60D didn't have the benefit of the one-stop closed aperture that the 5D enjoyed for this test, but, in any case, it made no difference.

Actually F4.0 on 60D = F6.4 on 5D.If I shoot F6.4 on 5D, 5D will lead more

Ah - so now you believe in equivalence? At least we have made some progress then!

Since you raised first, and also reflect in real world photos before subject to respective diffraction.

What?

what?

The 60D has clearly resolved more detail.

LOL, check above again if you don't twist. 5D not only is sharper but resolves more fine details (such as the bricks), cleaner with much less fringe.

No - it's sharper but resolves less detail - as your files clearly demonstrate - if you are prepared to look.

My untwisted processed photos show 5D in outdoor photos, not only are sharper but actually resolve more fine details. Anyone without an agenda would see the same.

You up-sampled...your then are a bit more "twisted" then the unaltered raw images schmegg depicted.

LOL, I only gave 60D a benefit. I should also do downsampling by reduce 60D files to 5D size, as not everyone needs to print and view that big (btw, 5D view and print better from my own experiences).

Since I own both cameras and generated thousand and thousand photos from each of them, I know so clearly 5D takes better portrait and landscape photo while 60D has 'reach' (pixel density) advantage in zoo and safari. They complement each other well.

Explain to me how a 60D could have a reach advantage if it resolves less detail?

When you're unable to be closer or your lens is not long enough where 60D has 'reach' (actually pixel density) advantage. However when you are able to frame the subject into the same AOV, 5D does outresolve 60D with most lenses. DXOMark tests are right.

What? You just showed DXO to be off...why are you now saying they are back on? Are you mixing "resolution" with something else? Hard to understand what your comparing now.

My tests actually show DXOMark tests are correct. My understanding of resolution is the fine details human eyes can see. 41mp Nokia 808 seems has lots of MP but its resolution is very bad. 12mp 5D vastly outresolves Nokia 808.

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My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)

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