Why do I post here? Locked

Started Mar 9, 2013 | Discussions thread
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Usee
Senior MemberPosts: 1,602Gear list
Re: Laurence,
In reply to Richard Franiec, Mar 12, 2013

Richard Franiec wrote:

Laurence Matson wrote:

With all due respect, get serious. Were I a beta tester, I would be operating under an NDA, and I am sure you understand that one of the clauses in that would be non-disclosure terms. The same would apply for anyone, who was one in the past, since non-disclosure provisions usually extend beyond the end of any agreement. Nevertheless, I will interject below some things that I know, since they have nothing to do with an NDA, even if I were under one.

Richard Franiec wrote:

Laurence Matson wrote:

Øyvind,

... and then have the gall to denigrate other things - meetings, trade shows, shoots, beta testing, personal contacts, dinners, tours - for what appears to be simple jealousy reasons, thereby ignoring the fact that many people here have dedicated considerable resources in terms of time and money to making this effort on the part of Foveon and Sigma somewhat successful. And for the most part, those people doing this, did not do it to make you or anyone else jealous (as you clearly are); amazing as the concept may seem to you, Sigma and Foveon actually reach out to users they can identify as serious people, who might have something important for them to hear.

Laurence
laurence at appledore-farm dot com
"The fact of being reported multiplies the apparent extent of any deplorable development by five- to tenfold" (or any figure the reader would care to supply).
Barbara Tuchman, A Distant Mirror
http://www.pbase.com/lmatson
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr
http://www.howardmyerslaw.com

Interesting,

Until now beta testing for Sigma with all perks (listed or not) were taboo on this forum.

Your confession begs for answers:

I made no confession. I just find it beyond belief that people are denigrated because someone has a petty issue with jealousy. I too have been at some of those dinners - one of the alleged perks. And so was absolutely every other user present at that show or event, without exception. And thanks were expressed by Sigma management to the Sigma users, no matter who they were and whether they used cameras or lenses or just a flash.

As Sandy mentioned, the so-called shoots are open to everyone, even if they do not use a Sigma camera. And these have taken place in many parts of the world, including Japan, Germany, France, UK, USA, and Switzerland. "Where two or three gather together . . . " is what the Yokefellows say. It is about fellowship and certainly not elitism.

I even participated in one in my home town hosted by Seng, because this is where Dick Merrill came from (and whose grave I visit more often than I can say; so am I also sliming up to Dick for perks?) And of course, I invited those who felt like it to come to the house, and they did.

1. Who are the beta testers for Sigma and participate in this forum?

I do not know.

2. What are the criteria to become beta tester for Sigma?

I have no idea.

3. How beta testers are compensated by Sigma?

I do not know.

4. List of suggestions to Sigma leading to improvement of product.

I know of several, but I will not list them specifically. Anyone, who has read my posts for any length of time, knows what they were.

5. Are the "serious" users opinions more important than average user observations and wishes?

Yes, to the extent that they are willing to give feedback freely and in a way that engineers can benefit from it. And I said nothing about "opinions;" there are more than enough of that to go around here. I am talking about having something important - of a contributory nature - to say.

6. Was SD1 initial price influenced by beta testers opinions?

You must be joking. You honestly think that if I knew anything I would discuss this on an open forum where there is at least a matching amount of indiscretion as there is discretion running rampant. The initial price of the SD1 was made public at photokina 2010. Other things happened at the launch. There has been a lot of speculation about this; it is up to senior management at Sigma to announce what they think is pertinent.

These are my initial questions. I guess that it wiill be more coming.

Fine.

-- hide signature --

Laurence
laurence at appledore-farm dot com
"The fact of being reported multiplies the apparent extent of any deplorable development by five- to tenfold" (or any figure the reader would care to supply).
Barbara Tuchman, A Distant Mirror
http://www.pbase.com/lmatson
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr
http://www.howardmyerslaw.com

Laurence,

I got nothing against beta testers. In fact, I do believe that they have crucial role in discovering faults and inadequacies in any new product or prototype. There is nothing to be ashamed of to be in the position to use one's expertise in truthful evaluation of given product and pointing out areas requiring improvements. Sometimes the improvements are not possible under current state of affairs and this is understandable but denial or discounting the fault by tester is not.

What I find disturbing is the presence of the beta tester or insider on the public forum, not per se but acting in the role of manufacturer's representative, or if you like, compensated or not shill. Forcing (repeatedly) one sided views with more or less diplomatic approach including attacks on people with different perspective gives away their identity and agenda. Who benefits from such behavior? The community? Sigma? I don't believe that lashing others to submission is the way of work acceptable for great educators, which most familiar with the subject should be. I also don't believe that untruth or partial truth becomes the truth when repeated a thousand times. Maybe this approach works for some but majority of regulars on many forums (especially this one) are independent, open minded thinkers who can read between the lines or like you would phrase, separate chaff from grain.

I don't like terms like Sigmafia, or fanboy, plentiful on this forum and I never use them. Since you have mentioned word "Evangelist" coined by the Sigma's founder for the close circle of followers, I think that this term is more adequate, palatable and also revealing. We'll see if it sticks:-D

On end of this musing I wish for more civility and respect for others and their opinions if that's not too much to ask.

Sincerely

Richard

Thank You Richard,

your reply is probably more understandable (not only for Laurence) than mine,

so I don't need to give him a further answer to the message he sent to me, in this regard.

A forum is for open talk, so I prefer to write the answers here and not unseen for the community in personal messages. I think we made a TRUE point...

...no more masks and mirrors! Punkt.

Uli

-- hide signature --

Envy is the highest form of recognition.
Stop to run, start to think.
Think twice - that doubles the fun!
Your world is as big, as Your mind.
Avoid to have only one point of view!
Uli

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