Why do I post here? Locked

Started Mar 9, 2013 | Discussions thread
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Laurence Matson
Forum ProPosts: 11,172Gear list
About a C
In reply to yvind Strm, Mar 11, 2013

Øyvind,

With all due respect, I think this is a bit over the top. I could just as easily sign on to "Splendid" and trump it with my own "Profilierungsneurose." There is something there.

Much of what you say has a grain of truth spiced with a dash of not-so-subtle and seemingly understated viperitude.

And all of it at such length begs the question: Why not just say: "Chill out, folks!"

But the length - Biblical by forum standards - is something I think you really like, because it gives the impression that you have more merit in what you say than others could possibly have.

This is blatantly untrue, again, with all due respect. You have not the slightest idea what others do in a holistic sense. You take a picture from here, blow it way up. First, through your labels: fanboys, wannabees, Richard Stones, "serial comparers," Sigmafia, Carl's wife (which I assume you mean with "Linn"), etc, and then have the gall to denigrate other things - meetings, trade shows, shoots, beta testing, personal contacts, dinners, tours - for what appears to be simple jealousy reasons, thereby ignoring the fact that many people here have dedicated considerable resources in terms of time and money to making this effort on the part of Foveon and Sigma somewhat successful. And for the most part, those people doing this, did not do it to make you or anyone else jealous (as you clearly are); amazing as the concept may seem to you, Sigma and Foveon actually reach out to users they can identify as serious people, who might have something important for them to hear.

As for your judgment of who is civil and who is not, I agree that a good tone is preferable, but I also think that sly humor, direct statements, and even brutal honesty also have their place. Pollyanna has just as little place here as does Attila the Hun, and by his own account, Ron is far closer to the latter.

What really killed your grade though is your placing yourself on some pedestal as the final arbiter of the good photograph. That last long paragraph addressed to Ron goes beyond the ridiculous and ends at the faux-sublime. You have an opinion about what makes a great picture and provide it - when you have the time. But it is only your opinion, and sometimes wrong in the eyes of others, who have every right to be just as correct or wrong as you.

Finally, your long list of characters reads like an Irish dramatis personae after a collective supping off the end of the Guinness pipeline before they have a group slash all over the pitch.

Here's my question to you: How much time do you actually spend off this forum constructively communicating with other members in an attempt to clean up some of the mess you perceive being here?

Nuff said for now. I am very interested to hear Ron's take on what you wrote.

yvind Strm wrote:

RonJG wrote:

I would seriously like to better understand the Sigma cameras I own, (SD1M, SD15 and DP2M). I have problems with all three of them with weird and inconsistent colours, weird and inconsistent exposure and strange jaggies and purple/green splotches in shadow detail.

I'm told I'm either mad or just stirring up trouble with I ask questions or am told that there is nothing wrong with my gear, that all the problems are either in my head or my fault.

The "help" I have received here has either been non existent or has been of such patronising quality it was immediately dismissed.

This forum is NOT a terribly helpful place to be if you fall out with the SigMafia, or if one of the SigMafia decides you are not worthy. One step out of line and the dog pack is released. Pretty disgusting behaviour I must say.

Anyhoo - I'm certainly no quitter and I will continue to try to get these Sigma things working at something approaching an acceptable level.

I will also continue to offer honest and open oipinion on posted pictures and I will continue challenging those persons I feel are being less than open or honest with their comments. If honest comments are not received at Sigma headquarters, problems will never be fixed. The 12 years or so of the purple/green splotches is testament to that.

Go your damndest, Sigmafia. I ain't leaving voluntarily.

Ron

I am sorry that I have missed your request for help. There ARE several helpful people here. I will do whatever I can to help. Please link to previous requests or write a new list. Even several member of the "sigmafia" are helpful - if you do not insult their cameras or Sigma, and when they not are busy with:

  1. defending against imaginary trolls
  2. scanning a posters history to find out if he has a Sigma
  3. scanning a posters history to find quotas to use against him
  4. denying that a problem exist, unless they have seen it themself (to be fair, only a few falls into this category)
  5. monitoring if one of their friends (or heroes) are beeing critisized
  6. managing their huge Ignore list
  7. feeding a posters post into a very advanced algorythm to match him against all previous persons that is disliked in this forum (which is an even huger list), and share among them
  8. mending their hurt feelings when someone critisize their camera or Sigma (oh, I have alraedy said that once)
  9. pulling out Richard Stone as last line of defence. Sorry, Richard - you wondered who would step out in defence of RonJ. That comment might have made some to refrain from doing so - which I have no doubt was the intention (and a new low, even from you) - but, sorry, not me. Oh, I must say, not so much in defence of RonJ, but against the behaviour of you and other fanboys. I would not accuse any of you fanboys beeing only 13 or so, but its not always easy to see that from your and others posts. Your language is of course too sophisticated, but the attacks are not.

And then there is the wannabees. Relativly new to the forum, they jump in, in defence (no, sorry, join the attack) of the master "fanboys".

There are also some hidden aspects in this forum, that is invisible to newcomers, but may explain some of the strange things happening here. Firstly, many of the oldtimers meet in person. On PMA - with tours (with equipment form Sigma), and dinners (sponosred by Sigma). Some may even be found behind the counters at Sigmas stand, helping Sigma demonstrating. So, maybe some are defending priviledges in addition to camera/Sigma?

Next thing is Beta testers. Several people here are betatesters for Sigma. Would you find it reasonable to expect that they agreed on faults they did not find when testing?

Dunno why I write this - I don't know how many times I have tried to get people to behave better here. I claim that the fanboy approach of to many here, is harming Sigma. For every poster there are many, many lurkers. People are attracted to Sigma, comes here to see if Sigma has a good community - and what do they find? A bunch of uncivil people that jumps in unison on anyone differing in views about their camera or Sigma. Does it scare some from buying Sigma cameras? I am sure it has.

The Sigmafia/fanboy behaviour of this forum may drive out some unwanted individuals (and yes, that has been done successfully many times over the years) and regain the illusion of a cosy place. To me, it is the fanboys, Sigmafia or whatever name appropriate that spoils almost ALL the spoiled discussions here, by far to often responding in an uncivil way. The favorite excuse is that there has been so many trolls coming here over the years, so people have a low tolerance.

I have used Sigma for several years now (oh, I havn't shown a picture of a glass of water yet, so Linn probably do not believe it). From the very launch of my camera (the SD14) the forum flooded with faults. Over the coming years I collected tips and tricks, and turned it into a compendium for new users. (Temporarely unavailible)

My take is - let's get everything on the table. If a persons unit doesn't show the same behaviour, good for you - but do not deny problems other have. Only if everything is out in the open, workarounds can be found (or not), and Sigma can be notified and make a fix. Sigma cameras is different, quirks are numerous, Sigmas SW qualities is inferior to most others makers and unit variation is present. I thought I could use the SD14 for professional jobs, but had to postpone my plans for returning to pro jobs for several years.

But in the end, one must decide if the potentionally superb results makes it worth the endless frustrations of the camera. I can't risk using my SD14 to earn money, so I go for a Nikon D800E, which I consider closest to getting Sigmas microcontrast. And possibly a DP2M.

Ron, a few words of advice to you too.

If someone posts a picture, and do not especially ask for feedback, a good advice is to wait a little, till the usual Ahhs, and Ohhs has come, and the author do not prostests to getting positive feedback, then I can step in, either to challenge the responders to why they think it is a good image, or offering a rather extensive comment about the picture. I always say what I mean, but I try to do it in a constructive way. But, some people do ONLY want pats on their back, which they unfortunately get from friends and alike. SO you can still be honest, but I too think you came off to direct in your first post.

With that said, the responses from Linn and others was far worse.

-- hide signature --

Kind regards
Øyvind

-- hide signature --

Laurence
laurence at appledore-farm dot com
"The fact of being reported multiplies the apparent extent of any deplorable development by five- to tenfold" (or any figure the reader would care to supply).
Barbara Tuchman, A Distant Mirror
http://www.pbase.com/lmatson
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr
http://www.howardmyerslaw.com

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