What will be coming from Canon and when ?

Started Feb 24, 2013 | Discussions thread
schmegg
schmegg MOD
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Re: What will be coming from Canon and when ?
In reply to Mikael Risedal, Mar 1, 2013

Mikael Risedal wrote:

rbarta wrote:

Mikael Risedal wrote:

Mikael Risedal wrote:

jsmiller wrote:

I think you are little bit wrong about figures here.

we will se what Canon have in their sleeves, another sensor with pattern noise, high read out noise?

I have been unable to detect pattern noise on my 5D III. My upper limit is 2 electrons or so, which for any practical purpose means none. My T2i is equally good, while my 450D had distinct, annoying banding, but very low fixed patteren noise. What do you call high readout noise? I am used to less than 2 electrons on the science CCDs that I use. Suppose the latest Canon sensors have what I would consider high readout noise, say 10 electrons. This means that an exposure of 100 detected photons per pixel will have the photon noise increased by about 40% by the readout noise, since noise adds in quadrature. Have you ever looked at an image with an average of 100 detected photons per pixel? That's a photon S/N of 10, and the image would look awful. Now for science purposes I have been forced to work at S/N below 10, but the intended purposes were not a nice image. I have seen claims that the readout noise of the latest Canon sensors is around 5 electrons. If that is the case, once you you have detected more that 25 photons/pixel, the readout noise is less than the photon noise. There can be other sources of noise, such as dark current, that make the relative contribution of the readout noise even smaller.

If you were to tell me that canon sensors have 25 electrons readout noise, I would consider that awful, a real handicap. However, if indeed it is near 5, I think it is irrelevant for over 99% of people taking images with the camera, though you of course may not be in that 99%. Then it's simple: choose your camera with readout noise as an important consideration. Furthermore if you or anyone is as much interested in the technology as in taking pictures, then you may not be satisfied if the performance numbers are not as good as can be achieved, regardless of whether it makes any practical difference whatsoever in the images you obtain.

Joe

Here you go http://www.sensorgen.info/CanonEOS_5D_MkIII.html compared to Nikon d800

http://www.sensorgen.info/NikonD800.html. = 12,2 times higher read out noise in 5dmk3=33e compared to 2.7e in D800 and base iso

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Member of Swedish Photographers Association since 1984
Canon, Hasselblad, Leica,Nikon, Linhoff, Sinar
Member of International anti-banding and read out noise Association

I forgot, the banding , pattern noise is not includet in the 11 stops DR from 5dmk2 5dmk3

and it shows up compared to Nikon like this pictures and the same operation in terms of visualize details in the shadows from a contrast-rich motive

https://picasaweb.google.com/106266083120070292876/5dmk2AndD800DRSunSet

as you can se the Nikon has a lot more information in the lower levels compared to Canon

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Member of Swedish Photographers Association since 1984
Canon, Hasselblad, Leica,Nikon, Linhoff, Sinar
Member of International anti-banding and read out noise Association

I see you have started yet another thread Mikael with the same DR stuff have already posted hundreds of times.

When you first published this it went on for pages, where we finally learned that to accomplish this you had to force ISO, aperture and shutter to underexpose 5 stops, but that wasn't enough. Then you pushed shadows, but even that wasn't enough to bring out problems so you set the exposure down, pushed shadows more and added magenta. But that's the type of information you prefer to leave out.

You have to work very hard to get shots to look as bad as the ones you seem to shoot.

well, it shows what you can do or not do with a Canon

pure comparison.

Actually. It's not.

Mikael - you've been pushing this example around these forums for quite some time now.

But quite clearly, to people who actually use these cameras, something seems very wrong with the treatment of the 5D2 image.

So, if you intend to continue posting and creating threads with this information, then it's time you put up these images in raw form and with full EXIF for scrutiny by this community. Doing so will prove your point if you are genuine. If you are not then I'll assume you are trolling.

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