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Re: Yet more obfuscation...
In reply to Lin Evans,
3 months ago
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Lin Evans wrote:
DMillier wrote:
Lin
It is perfectly clear and obvious that there is something not quite right with these test patterns for a long time before the area you picked out as "lines above Nyquist".
Just look above, to the side, below. There are broken patterns everywhere. Nowhere in post Nyquist region do you see the clean, sharp, unambiguous reliably continuous 17 b&w lines like you see at say 15 on the chart. The question isn't whether there is something that looks a bit like the test pattern, it's whether there is something that is exactly test pattern. The slightest deviation is the point the pattern breaks down.
You are ignoring the evidence - which makes it funny when you accuse others of obfuscating.
Try repeating your line slicing exercise but instead of cherry picking one slice to support your conviction, make 30 slices at equal intervals from say 10 onwards. Then ask your "average man on the Clapham omnibus" to compare the slices and pick the first slice where there is a hint that the original 17 line pattern is degrading. I'll be a lot nearer 20 than 35 (as you know perfectly well)....
Ignoring the nearby degraded slices in favour of the next one that happens to look vaguely OK is not intellectual honesty.
--
Galleries and website: http://www.whisperingcat.co.uk/
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidmillier/
David,
That's a silly response from you. You and a few others responding continually want to change the goal post position to bolster your opinions.
There are "lines" above Nyquist, period. That's all I've said since the beginning of this discussion and the evidence is incontrovertible. You and several others are continually trying to make a different discussion to suit your agenda. The original statement was this, and I quote,
"People can dilute themselves all they want but at the end of the day, there is no information about the scene above Nyquist."
The above statement is false. Attempts to draw me into your drama are useless. I said and I maintain, there are lines above Nyquist in this photo. Lines are "the scene" and therefore information about the scene exists above Nyquist. The lines are not imaginary, they are not created by "perceptions" or "expectations" they are not "fragments, slivers" or otherwise. They are quite real and they are, by definition, above Nyquist. It is indeed that simple and if you or others can't see that simple fact, then further discussion with you about it is fruitless and a waste of bandwidth.
Lin
--
learntomakeslidshows.net
...and the lines here:
aliasing below Nyquist - meanwhile a well known scene...
...they are quite real and below nyquist - in the DP2M picture,
but You know, that they were not TRUE...
...a simple fact, isn't it?
...and contain those lines information about the scene in this case?
-
Contains noise information about a scene?
-
Noise is also obfuscating the true information about a scene...
...is it better to have a obfuscating noise pattern, or no noise?
Is a sky with a hint of (banding) noise more true than a smooth sky with noise reduction?
-
science is based on search after the truth,
that is why true scientists should accept something as information, only if it is reliable,
therefore in the stronger, more scientific meaning of information,
one has no (true) (read "NO") information, if it is unreliable due to aliasing, noise, or something else...
...especially if the error can't be quantified - which is the case with aliasing occuring in situations outside a lab with known pattern - read: the real world of most photographers. Period.
-
B.t.w.:
Who benefits from Your POV and argumentation?
Ulrich
--
Envy is the highest form of recognition.
Stop to run, start to think.
Think twice - that doubles the fun!
Your world is as big, as Your mind.
Avoid to have only one point of view!
Uli
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