Olympus Statement About Fourthirds and Micro Fourthirds

Started Jan 31, 2013 | Discussions thread
mpeman
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Re: Olympus Statement About Fourthirds and Micro Fourthirds
In reply to Raist3d, Feb 2, 2013

Raist3d wrote:

mpeman wrote:

It is not a matter of what is considered trolling, but rather how one discusses an issue. Simply talking about a shortcoming is one thing. Ranting about it at every opportunity is another.

mpeman, while I agree there are times that this has happened (as it happens in every forum) I think to say this and leave it as in the context of this discussion is a mispresentation of the whole picture. There has been likewise a never endless stream of claims of superiority by some of the Olympus gears in areas that it simply it doesn't do as well as claimed and flat out misinformation that actually takes away from making the best form these particular tools or giving a better recommendation to someone asking about it.

Agreed.  But that is a far different argument than that which we speak of here, or at least should speak of.  Rule number 5 of these very forums is rather simple:  Be civil. Anyone being rude, abusive, calling names or generally trying to stir up trouble will not be tolerated. If you think someone is wrong it may be because they are new. Don't jump on them, think first. If you are repeatedly abusive you will be banned from these forums. Specific behavior that will not be        tolerated and will result in post removal / banning includes:

  • Bashing: Deliberately and repeatedly bashing the same brand, product or company. If you have a complaint or comment to make, make it once and make sure you have facts to support it. (Italics mine)

So for example if someone starts a thread (has happened) with the E-5 being compared (with faulty methodology) to a Canon 5D Mark II, or claims that the E-5 has 3 stops better noise than an E-3 capabilities (which, has happened and repeated), "What E-5 banding?"( which has happened, and repeated)- it's only natural that you are going to see in such discussions those who disagree and even better, may have evidence to the contrary- bring it up.

I can certainly understand where this happens from time to time.  I have seen it as well.  What I speak of is when the argument becomes the subject rather than what started the discussion overall in the first place.  There is a difference between a discussion and an disagreement for the sake of disagreeing.

The mistake then is that this is taken as trolling but doing the opposite- hyping up the system regularly in a non factual way, is somehow, ok and accepted. This doesn't help in the end the Olympus owner understand their tools or the honest guy or gall that is trying to sort out if the system is the one for their needs.

Not really.  Most reasonable folks know when smoke is being blown up ones backside.  That goes with any camera brand.

Moreover, you think such discussions between the ones interested even when asking right at the top of the thread right after setting the theme, to please not join if not interested would be possible in a civilized forum- only to be joined in an ad-hoc fashion by some brand advocates with personal attacks and misunderstandings of the thread - who claim they have no interest in such subjects! But somehow a lot of this was ok, no problem.

But in this particular thread of which we are participating in right now...it was not.  And yet look ast where it has headed.

It is indeed interesting how quickly anything but positive comments has put those who also have and own Olympus equipment, at the end of personal and often vicious attacks (you can check the history of threads and discussions).

I have no doubt.  I have been a member here for some time and have seen it for myself!

A good example was when I explored the DR shift of the E-620 (which happened form E-30 and onwards). I gave detailed instructions for everyone to re-create the findings. dpreview themselves was scratching their head how come the E-30 was losing one stop highlight DR when going to ISO 100 in their E-30 review (go ahead and check it out). I explained the findings and this should help everyone to get shots with their Olympus equipment more in range of what the shot has.

The result? The majority simply decided to say that I was trolling, that I was putting down the brand, that I have no clue about photography and so on. Completely unwarranted, I wasn't even saying anything bad about the camera or brand. In fact, the conclusion was that the increase in noise that seemed at first disproportionate on the e-620 was not created by a worse sensor but by this shift.

I recall that very well.  I almost didn't buy one until I tested one in my local shop and made sure that your findings weren't going to interfere with my needs.

Now, before someone points out "hey are you going to bring this thread again?" kinda deal I will say- in this context, in this discussion, it is an excellent example, of what has gone on at times and the point that very often trolling has been defined as "whatever someone says that we do not want to hear, repeated or not, that interferes with the regular chanting on how perfect the brand products of 4/3rds are."

I agree.  Anyone who says any brand is absolutely perfect is dead wrong.  All have faults.  Different uses for different users and all that.  All I ask is that the discussions stay reasoned and cool-headed.  Those are, when you look at it, the rules here at DPReview.  Latitude is granted, but rules is rules.  That's why community moderation was formed.

“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” - George Orwell

Of course, no one can point anymore that "I am trolling" since I just don't come here anymore, except for these three posts in this thread. I may take my e-620 for a walk within the month and post the shots- as I have constantly done, with Olympus 4/3rds equipment - yes, I have started threads that show photographs almost on a monthly basis in the past- imagine that!

And the photography is, after all, the best reason!

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Regards,
Kevin
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Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- I photograph black cats in coal mines at night...
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” - George Orwell

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Regards,
Kevin
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