Was Mussolini a good man?

Started Jan 28, 2013 | Discussions thread
Collett
Senior MemberPosts: 4,987
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Re: Mens Rea
In reply to RobertSigmund, Jan 29, 2013

RobertSigmund wrote:

Collett wrote:

RobertSigmund wrote:

KEVZPHOTOS wrote:

Barrie Davis wrote:

illy wrote:

KEVZPHOTOS wrote:


I think that there are several reasons...as to why the "Holocaust" has stuck out more than any other genocide in recent history..and also in the minds of 20th century society.

First and foremost, WW2 was the most devastating event in the last 200 years. It encompassed an entire continent, and then some. It killed more people, did more destruction, and involved more countries all together, than any other conflict.

Also, it was the most covered, written about, documented, photographed, filmed global war in human history.

It's still RAW in the minds of many....it's only 65 years ago.....it's not a long distant memory some 3-4 centuries past with no current day generational direct linkage.

The "Holocaust" itself...was a very clinical, organized, methodical, document, sinister, evil genocide...orchestrated by one of the worlds (supposedly) most civilized, sophisticated European high-society nations. It was not two "relatively" under-developed tribes killing one another in Africa, such as in Rwanda, Zaire, Congo, etc.

Not only that....it was a very systematic, total genocide with the sole aim of completely destroying a specific ethnic group of people from the face of Europe...and later if possible - the world.

Also, it occured at a time, when the Jewish people were experiencing a sharp rise in anti-Semitism throughout Europe and that entire issue was coming to a head.

Every human genocide warrants equal attention and sympathy...they are ALL stand alone. One should never diminish another - that's a given.

However, I think that the NAZI era stands out in the minds of most humans as the "worst" chapter in recent history...for a variety of reasons....and that's why the Holocaust has been subconsciously chosen as the pinnacle of human evil.

The NAZI era may (in reality) have been no worse than say, the Roman or early Ottoman (Greece) eras.....but WE as 21st century citizens cannot psychologically relate to such distant/past events with the same emotion, etc.

Even slavery (which of course was just as terrible as the Holocaust)....seems a long time ago now...it's slipped onto the back-burner of our human psyche. In another 200 years, it will be the same with the Holocaust, etc...just as the Brits don't have a national "remembrance day" for 1066 when ole William the Conqueror invaded the Septic Isles and took over, raping and pillaging as he went.

KEV

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"No problem can be solved at the level of consciousness which created it" - Albert Einstein

it was well documented, i would wager Stalin killed more off then Hitler ever did, and don't forget the modern forgotten Genocides, Sri Lanka, the Balkans, Rwanda. Then we have Cambodia and occurrences like the Stolen Generations in Australia, they are all as bad as each other and tragedies in human history that seems to be set to repeat itself endlessly. Pick your genocide and and mark it anyway you want.

I don't think the stolen generations of Australia is "all as bad as each other" in comparison with gassing millions of people and getting the next ones scheduled for the extermination chambers to incinerate the bodies, do you?

There are degrees of human evil, and we are all diminished if the worst is confused with the rest..

So true Baz,

and I personally, cannot think of a greater EVIL than what occurred during NAZI Germany.

Not that...this diminishes any other evil event in history....however, it just doesn't get any worse than the Holocaust - period.

KEV

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"No problem can be solved at the level of consciousness which created it" - Albert Einstein

May be not worse - but just as bad. No victim of Hiroshima or Nagasaki nuclear bombing that maybe still is alive and suffers from nuclear-induced awful cancer will be consolated because Nazi Germany crimes are number one in your nomenclatura.

Mens Rea - perhaps you have heard of the term Robert? One needs to look at the intent of the perpetrators of such crimes. As I see it in Germany at the time, there were levels of Mens Rea anywhere from total innocence to complete inhuman monsters. Killing for the sake of expediency or efficiency needs to be distinguished from evil. I hate that term, but if there was ever an example of it, Hitler and his clan embodied it. That is why I agree with Kev on this relative to the other examples.

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Jim

I had not heard the term mens rea before. Now I have googled it. Seems to be a current term in anglosaxon penal law if I got it right and to mean some kind of justification for a deed.

Justification does not do justice to the meaning. Sure, justification adequately describes self defense such as killing another who was the aggressor and one is merely protecting themselves. What Mens Rea does is separate the act itself from the mental state of the criminal. A separate evaluation is made regarding the intent of the person alleged to have committed a crime.

Examples might best describe what I am talking about. In order for there to be the crime of murder, intent to murder a person must be established. People can get killed by mere acts of negligence, and this is not the same level of crime because there is no intent. In case you did not know, here in the states if a crime is committed and a gun is involved there are laws that escalate the Mens Rea component simply because a gun was involved. The practical result is much more severe sentencing for crimes where more egregious intent is involved.

So in the case of Hitler, he was the aggressor in WWII. This mere fact alone assigns him a higher level of guilt than those that are responding to his actions. On top of this, the man was an insidious monster with an intent to wipe out an entire 'race' - and not for reasons to merely facilitate his military and political objectives.

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Jim

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