Best MILC for Shooting Figure Skating?

Started 6 months ago | Questions thread
Billx08
Forum ProPosts: 11,373
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No MILC yet for what you need.
In reply to MicheleR, 6 months ago

MicheleR wrote:

I would like to buy a mirrorless camera for my daughter's 16th birthday. She is a figure skater, and she hates the poor quality images the contracted photographers shoot at her events. I know mirrorless isn't in the same league as DSLRs, but I am concerned she won't use the camera if it's too heavy and cumbersome.

I have gone into camera shops to try a few, but I really can't duplicate the rink's challenging shooting environment in a store. The NEX6 with its standard kit lens did not do a good job shooting my quick hand gestures - my hand was a blocky smear of flesh color. The Sony Alpha SLT-A77VQ did an excellent job, but I think it's too big for her.

Lighting in the rinks is a challenge: Use of flash is prohibited, skaters move in and out of shadows if the sun is shining, shows use spotlights that change colors, the ice reflects light, it is dark at night...

Quick movement is the other major challenge: I am talking about shooting Olympic level skaters, not little kids - movement is very fast, especially during spins and jumps. Continuous autofocus and shooting is a must - there is no time to adjust anything during a skater's routine!

Range adds another dimension: Skaters will be close to the shooter at times, but they will also be far away at the opposite end of the rink for part of their routine.

My budget is $1700 for camera, lens and software (if software can easily correct common issues mirrorless cameras have in this environment).

I have bad news for you. For the performance you're trying to get, your budget won't cut it. You could get a D600 if a high frame rate isn't needed, but that camera is still a couple of hundred dollars above your budget and it doesn't include a lens, and the kinds of lenses you (your daughter) would need cost about as much as the camera. Ideally, you'd get a used D3 in good condition for between $2,000 and $2,200. The slightly improved D3s goes for twice that price, used, and the D4 that replaced them is even more expensive. All of these are large, heavy DSLRs, but they provide the performance that you won't get from smaller, lighter cameras like the D600. In addition to B&H, KEH is a really good source for used cameras and lenses, probably the best.

Here are some quotes from one of DPR's best and most knowledgeable photographers (Marianne Oelund) who although she's an engineer, is also a figure skater and is an accomplished photographer of (among other things) figure skating. If she sees this thread, she might be able to revise some of the quotes since most were posted several years ago and they may not be as true today as they used to be. For what it's worth, I'm assuming that Marianne is much more accurately described as petite than as gargantuan, yet she says that she can shoot hand held with these cameras and incredibly large and heavy lenses like the 200-400mm f/4 and the 400mm f/2.8, at least for short spells, so your daughter might have no problems at all with smaller lenses and a monopod, although I understand the the cost of this type of gear may seem beyond the pale.

`

My passion for figure skating brought me to this particular niche of photography. It takes a great deal of that, to persist through 15-hour days standing by the ice! My customers are grateful for that devotion, and although several have graciously complimented me for my artistry, I still consider myself more of a technician in my approach. I can control only composition and timing - far less than most artists would accept as an outlet for their creativity - but I sincerely put my heart into my work and do the very best that I can.

So it isn't about the equipment, but as an electronics engineer, I certainly have a good understanding of it, which I apply as needed - and to the benefit of others here, when opportunities arise.
Primary gear is:
D3 (two)
70-200 f/2.8 VR, TC-14
Sigma 120-300/2.8
200 f/2 VR
200-400 f/4 VR
24-70 f/2.8 (for synchro and teams)
Spring-loaded telescoping monopod (essential!)
Additional gear: Too much to list.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/28568866

This alone probably represents about $20,000 worth of gear. Your daughter wouldn't need the really expensive lenses, but the 70-200mm and 24-70mm lenses would be a good starting point. Non-Nikon versions could be substituted to reduce the cost, but these were chosen for good reasons. Don't be too discouraged. A used D300 or D300s might be worth considering instead. It won't be nearly as good as a D3, with a much lower "keeper" rate,  but it's sure to be a giant step up from her two year old point and shoot.

`

My primary work is indoor action photography, and the 1D Mk III was the camera I used from July-Nov 2007, taking about 275,000 photos. Since then, I've been using the D3 (400,000 frames accumulated).

For me, the primary difference is the D3's more flexible, capable and accurate AF. It has distinguished itself as significantly better than any other camera I've used; the AF success rate is astonishing.

Because of high volume, I must rely on the camera's JPEG processing rather than shooting RAW. The D3 has much more extensive image processing than the Mk III, and is able to return results comparable to the Mk III JPEG output at a full stop higher ISO setting. I have numerous examples of D3 ISO 6400 images that compare very closely to the Mk III at ISO 3200, both in terms of detail and noise level.

With the D700, you will need to add a battery grip to achieve 8 fps speed. Although that sounds much less than 10 fps, keep in mind that Nikon's speed rating is achieved in real field conditions, e.g. with AF in use. The Mk III can only achieve near 10 fps with AF off, and the average speed it attained for my field use was about 8.5 fps.

In my opinion, the only backup for a D3 is another D3. I do own a D300, but if I needed to use a backup, I might prefer my older D2Hs to the D300.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/31216022

`

Because 16mp RAW files are a advantage to those who shoot several thousand images in a evening. And most professionals who buy D4s do.

Underscoring that point, some typical numbers from my business:
At least 8fps burst speed required
About 100 frames taken per minute of action
2000-3000 frames per hour of event
Up to 15 event hours per day

Uploading to server, transfer to viewing/burning stations via ethernet, all done in real time - transfer time must be a fraction of a second per image. Images available for customer viewing, and recording of photo CDs, literally within minutes of capture.

RAW is impossible. Even 16Mpix JPEG is impossible. To meet the required image transfer rate, I'm using 5Mpix-7Mpix resolutions and heavy JPEG compression. There isn't time for 36Mpix, period.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/40829836

`

> just a great camera to use, never lets me down and still surprises
> with it's ability.........
>

I've now spent a full year with my D3, encompassing all of the various venues which I work at annually. After nearly 400,000 frames with this exceptional camera, I still shake my head in disbelief at the superlative results it returns in the most difficult shooting situations. There are many who try to argue that it's the photographer, not her tools, which matter most; but there is no question that for those of us who are pushing the limits of our equipment's operating envelope, the improvements brought by the D3 elevate our photography to a new level.

Competition after competition, photo set after photo set, I have never before seen the consistent high quality in imagery which the D3 has been producing this last year. From its fast, precise and absolutely dependable AF, to its powerful and extensive image processing coupled with its class-leading image sensor, the D3 absolutely sets the standard amongst today's camera offerings.

Prior to the D3, I was always wishing for just a little better performance from my equipment, resolution of just a few annoying issues, to bring my photography up to the standard I desired. With the D3, I can honestly say that I have finally and fully arrived.*

Thank you, Nikon, for one spectacular year of photography!

Unfortunately, there's no link for this quote. It was posted in the Samples and Galleries forum back in 2008 and probably didn't survive DPReview's forums upgrade, whether intentional or accidental. In any case, here's a link to another of Marianne's posts, well worth reading even though it describes, well . . .

Nightmare at the Rink

http://actionphotosbymarianne.com

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