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Re: Not quite right.
In reply to Detail Man,
6 months ago
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Detail Man wrote:
Moti wrote:
Bob Meyer wrote:
Paul Amyes wrote:
DOF is mainly effected byThat's not really quite right, either. Sensor size has nothing to do with DOF. Aperture diameter (not f-stop) does. A 50mm f/2 lens on an m43 camera will provide exactly the same DOF as a 50mm f/2 lens on a FF camera (or an APS-C camera). Obviously the field of view is different, but if you crop the FF shot to match the crop factor of the m43 shot, they'll look identical.
The reason we tend to think smaller sensors cause greater DOF is because we use shorter focal length lenses to match the FOV of what we're used to on larger sensors. And the aperture of a 25mm lens at f/2 is half the diameter of the 50mm f/2. It's that smaller aperture that is responsible for the greater DOF.
Focal length doesn't affect DOF either, except as it impacts the diameter of the aperture. It's the change in subject distance (you usually use telephotos from greater distances, and wide-angles closer up) that affects DOF. If you shoot with a 200mm lens from 20 feet, or use a 50mm lens and crop the image to match that of the 200, and use apertures of the same diameter (e.g. f/2 on the 50mm lens, f/4 on the 200), you'll have identical DOF.
So the two things that affect DOF when shooting are aperture diameter (not the same as f-stop) and distance.
At the other end of the image chain, enlargement of the final image and viewing distance also affect the DOF perceived by the viewer, but that's a longer topic.
That is a very precise and correct explanation but it is only academic. On the practical side of real world photography, it doesn't work that way.
It does not work that way (is not precise and correct) in the academic sense, either.
I wanted to remain polite.
As a photographer, i decide upon the amount of DOF I need to get and I can control that by chosing the right tools, dialing in the correct the settings and using proper techniques. That is all.
Now let's assume I have an assignment and I need a shallow DOF. I prefer to take the FF for the job, because it has a larger sensor, allowing me to get better dof control for a given focal length. I totally agree to your theory but for me, it translate to sensor size. If I need a shallow DOF, I'll choose a FF because the larger sensor size will give me some advantages compared to a smaller sensor. In other words, sensor size matters.
Under conditions of the same framing (same Field of View), the only reason that sensor-size matters in relation to DOF has to do with limitations in the minimum F-Numbers of lens-systems.
That is already a good enough reason to prefer a large sensor for those who want a very shallow DOF but there are also other advantages.
Now that I have chosen the camera, I have to choose a lens. Again I general theory you may be right, but practically, for a given camera body, which is where I am now, the focal length of the lens does play an important role. On my chosen body, I'll get a shallower DOF with a 100mm than with a 50mm and that is a non disputable fact. In other words, focal length does effect DOF.
You are correct. Under conditions of the same framing (same Field of View), DOF is still a function of Focal Length as well as Aperture Diameter as well as Camera to Subject Distance.
Now I have my gear ready and go for the settings. I agree that thaoretically, DOF is controlled by diameter of the aperture but I couldn't care less because when I am shooting, I do not have a tape measure with me and on my camera, there is no indication for aperture diameter.
The Diameter of the (entrance-pupil) Aperture is simply the Focal Length divided by F-Number.
I know that but I don't care because my camera indicates F stops and not pupil diameter and I was talking about a given focal length.
So for a photographer, all that translates to F stops because this is the only equivalent indication we have on our cameras.
Try Focal Length.
That is irrelevant. My comment concerns the practical use of F stop vs a theoretical pupil diameter. Focal length has been determined beforehand.
In other words, the paremeter used by photographers as an indication for DOF control is F stop and not aperture diameter.
Depends on whether one might be willing to divide the Focal Length by the F-Number.
What for? pupil diameter is meaningless for me on the practical side. My camera shows F stop and my DOF calculator gives me F stop values and not pupil diameter.
Of course, you were also right about the subject distance but to be precise, it is the relation between the camera to subject and the subject to background distances that counts.
Camera to Background if background distance is within the DOF (less than the Far Focus Distance). Camera to Subject Distance divided by the Hyperfocal Distance if background distance is greater than the Far Focus Distance. But, Hyperfocal Distance and Depth of Field are a function of Sensor Size, Viewing Size, Viewing Distance, and Visual Acuity, as well.
To sum up, as a theoretician, you were right.
Unfortunately, not so.
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