Thom Hogan's lens survey

Started Oct 29, 2012 | Discussions thread
Leif Goodwin
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Re: Thom Hogan's lens survey
In reply to bobn2, Nov 1, 2012

bobn2 wrote:

Leif Goodwin wrote:

There are a number of problems with the 1 series camera which mean they cannot satisfy class 3 users:

  1. Depth of field: the small sensor means shallow DOF is impossible to get.

Obviously. I can only give my subjective judgement, which is that the current Series 1 sensor is too small for general use, whereas current DX is fine, and current m4/3 is just about fine. Some of the older m4/3 is not good. That is my personal view.

Well, what you said was 'there are a number of problems with the 1 series camera which mean they cannot satisfy class 3 users' and then we find that it's your 'subjective judgement' and 'personal view', nothing absolute that means that these cameras cannot (not maybe not, or are less good thena, but cannot) satisfy class 3 users. One class three users is clearly satisfied:

It's official: at long last, my weekend carry-about camera has arrived. And it's called the V1.

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-11666-11988

All you are saying is that you think that Three Thirds is a much poorer compromise than Four Thirds. It's just a different compromise, one balanced more towards lens compactness - which to me makes it more attractive as a 'class three camera'.

Err, yes, that is what I said. Are you always so combative? There is no need to talk down to me.

I'm not 'talking down to you'. If you think that I am, you are suffering some problems of your own. You put your opinions out there for comment, I am commenting on them. I happen to disagree with you, and that, so far as I'm aware, is allowed.

It is the combative tone that comes across as patronising. I do not have problems. But I do not like some of the arguments on this forum, far too nerdy.

I can only give my subjective viewpoint, based on my needs, which is what you have done too. But to rephrase what I said, I think there is a segment between Series 1, and FX, that is satisfied by neither system. Clearly you disagree.

That is a better rephrase, because now it's your subjective opinion that's being stated, not a fact.

I assumed that you were intelligent enough to realise that I was stating an opinion, and to realise that I knew it was an opinion without my having to explicity state it, and without having to engage in a tedious argument. Your comments indicate a very pedantic nature, which is what I mean by aggressive. You engage in point scoring. Mentioning the Nikon D1h (if I recall correctly) seemed to be point scoring. Obviously it has features not in the CX cameras, do it was a complete red herring. And you are intelligent enough to know that.

Sorry, unable to do format text with this rotten editor.

"The crop factor between N1 (Three Thirds) and Four Thirds is 1.36. So, take this announced f/1.2 lens, it will give the same DOF as a f/1.6 on mFT. There are only a couple of faster lenses "

Well yes, but look at the systems as they actually are.

This is the systems as they actually will be in a short order of time, when Nikon releases its f/1.2 lens already announced. Or one of the several fast third party lenses that can be mounted. Either way, the system is capable of quite shallow DOF

No, as I said, look at the SYSTEMS. Do not look at one single lens. Look at the standard lenses.

It is all very well saying that theoretically blah blah blah. But in practice, looking at the lenses, standard zooms etc, mirrorless DX does provide more options as far as shallow DOF goes. For example, the standard CX 10mm lens is F2.8. Yes, there might be one fast lens, but most are not like that.

Certainly, but the satement you made was not 'looking at the lenses, standard zooms etc, mirrorless DX does provide more options as far as shallow DOF goes' it was that CX was incapable of shallow DOF. had you made the statement that you make now, I would not have disagreed.

Again this is in my view pedantry, although at the moment what I said is literally true. That F1.2 lens is vapour ware is it not? But even when it appears, it will be alone. And don't say "But there will be more". That is an assumption. When I look at the current range of Nikon CX lenses, the general trend is much greater DOF.

"You mean like the D4, D800, D600, 1D X, 5D III, 7D lack 'right angle finders'? It must be news to a whole load of professionals that lack of this feature renders these cameras unsuitable for them.

I am lost. I have the standard right angle finder, DR4 maybe, which fits all Nikon DSLRS. There are other features and accessories lacking in the Series 1 cameras. Many can be added with time, but I can only comment on what we have now.

Aha, I though you were talking about flippy LCD screens. Can you fit your DR4 on any MFT camera?

Right angle finder is as far as I know a standard term. Obviously I cannot fit it to a m4/3 camera as it fits Nikon DSLR cameras. I presume one is available for m4/3. If not, then that is a weakness of m4/3, unless it has a flippy LCD screen which sort of provides similar functionality.

Neither of us knows what the market thinks, and you can attack me because you do not agree,

I haven't 'attacked' you, I've just disagreed with you. Wow, you are sensitive.

No, I'm not sensitive. But you interpret and pull apart my posts in a very pedantic literal manner.

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Bob

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