Wow, Moose Peterson recommends the D600 over the D800.

Started Oct 13, 2012 | Discussions thread
em_dee_aitch
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Re: iTTL vs iTTL-BL
In reply to arizonadesertrat, Oct 18, 2012

arizonadesertrat wrote:

What it boils down to is that with Nikons other than the D4 and now the D600 in A or S mode if you need to underexpose ambient by 3 plus stops AND over expose your flash flash by 3 plus stops you need to get out of CLS and go manual.

You're munging up the terminology. "CLS" has nothing to do with auto or manual. You can use CLS in Manual mode or even Thyristor mode, regardless of which mode the camera is in. Or you can use the Camera in Manual mode with the CLS in TTL or any other mode. This issue strictly affects choice of exposure mode at the camera. You can continue using CLS no matter what.

Secondly, you keep saying "over expose your flash by 3 plus stops," which is a highly misleading way to put it. More accurately, you need to enter an arbitrary +3 stops just to get back to a *neutral* or *gray card level* (zeroed out)  exposure. That is not over exposed at all, but due to a buggy implementation in the Nikon flash system you have to act as if it is. That is why e4 is a big deal, that it overcomes a stupid long-time implementation that forces us to use M mode on the camera when A mode might better.

One of my favorite type of shots is of fellow bikers in the Arizona desert at sunset.  When I do these, I routinely underexpose the sky behind them to get a nice saturated sunset and then use Nikons CLS via Poppers to expose the bikes and riders. I've always enjoyed the full range of my D900 and D800s in those instances and don't remember ever going to M mode.

Again here I think you're not distinguishing between M mode on camera vs flash, and I thus I can't even tell what you're really doing here. In any case, in a highly controlled predictable yet challenging exposure such as a sunset, M mode at the camera makes great sense, assuming you are shooting in one direction. Now suppose you were having to rapidly shoot back and forth, rotating 180 degrees between shots, from back lit to front lit: In that case A mode at the camera would be superior, and yet in absence of e4 your usage of A+flash is impaired *if you are using compensation*. If you are not using compensation, you will not notice the problem.

I know Moose and McNally, especially McNally (Mr. Flash himself) who, btw, has done fairly well before the D4 or D600 came along,

And so have I, by being forced into M mode at the camera.

Maybe people in Canon land know something those of us in Nikon land don't because while I've heard plenty of Canon guys yearning for a CLS equivalent on their cameras,until Moose brought it up, I never heard a complaint about this e4 thing before.


Well, I've been saying it for years if that helps you. As far as the superiority of Nikon's CLS, that is a totally different matter. You keep mixing up the camera's problem, which is what this issue is, with CLS, with is an entirely different entity.

Since adding this e4 setting appears to be a firmware only "fix", maybe Nikon will add it to an update although I don't remember Nikon ever adding features through FW updates.

I have some hope that they will, but more people emailing to ask for it should help.

If you have a picture where you've used this particular 6 plus stop differential, I'd be interested in seeing it.  Always ready to learn new tricks.

Again, it is *NOT* in any way a 6 stop differential, because if the camera is at -3 and the flash is at +3 the first three stops at the flash must overlap with those at the camera just to get the flash back to zero level exposure--all of this due to the buggy and convoluted implementation prior to the e4 feature, which is why we all got forced to use M mode on the camera to overcome this problem. Therefore -3 camera/+3 flash *ONLY* produces a *3 STOP* differential, NOT 6.  I already gave you my example of wedding/business venues above. In your own sunset example up to a 3 stop differential is probably quite useful, much like my venue example.

If you de-confuse your language, you would find that you actually agree with me.

-- hide signature --

David Hill
http://www.sanfranciscoweddingphotographer.com
San Francisco & San Jose, CA | Austin, TX
Wedding Photographer and Apparent Gearhead

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