Wow, Moose Peterson recommends the D600 over the D800.

Started Oct 13, 2012 | Discussions thread
arizonadesertrat
Senior MemberPosts: 1,319Gear list
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Re: iTTL vs iTTL-BL
In reply to em_dee_aitch, Oct 17, 2012

em_dee_aitch wrote:

arizonadesertrat wrote:

em_dee_aitch wrote:

arizonadesertrat wrote:

em_dee_aitch wrote:

Fred Mueller wrote:

The classic example would be a model in the foreground with a backdrop - lets say a city-scape at dusk. To get the model to "stand out" you would underexpose for the ambient background by about 2 stops, and just let the flash do it's thing with no negative FV comp. (or just a touch) to light the model. And you can rock shutter speed back and forth to move the level of ambient exposure up or down if you are in in manual mode.  Any EV comp you dial in over this setup lays over both FV comp and the "apparent" manual meter setting - that's what I was referring to above.

So if you are correct, I can put a D800 in A mode, set exp comp on the camera to -2, set exposure comp on the flash (an SB900) to +2, turn BL on the flash off, and get a "neutral" exposure resulting on the flash... I'd swear I tested that long ago and found it did not work. But I'll try it again. Of course even if it does work, you can skip past the counterintuitive math by having e4 enabled on cameras that have it.


Works on My D300, D7000 and D800.  I think it worked on my D70 too.

OK, so I do get a valid exposure on my D800 if I follow the steps I noted above (with BL off), but the  reason this is still not a good workaround is that if you move your camera's exp comp in an upward direction the result will be a blown out exposure (due to the flash), because the ambient and flash exposures are still effectively merged into one. This means that each time you touch the camera's exp comp you must also have the time to pull the camera away from your face and change the separate comp on the flash. That is why e4 option as on the D4 is so superior, because changing the camera's comp to anything within reason will still result in a valid  exposure no matter what, because you don't have the flash unnecessarily jacked up.

I have to agree with Moose and Joe McNally that e4 is huge, and I am disappointed every day that Nikon does not release a firmware update for the D800 to put this more expensive camera on equal footing with the cheaper D600. Of course it will probably never get equal footing on WiFi or EyeFi, where the D600 will perpetually trounce it. If I was a WiFi oriented photog and had purchased the D800 I would be pi$$ed.

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David Hill
http://www.sanfranciscoweddingphotographer.com
San Francisco & San Jose, CA | Austin, TX
Wedding Photographer and Apparent Gearhead

Increasing ambient exposure by decreasing your shutter speed has no effect on your flash so, no, Nikons CLS will do just fine.

It doesn't in manual mode. The problem we're talking about is using A or S mode plus exp comp on the camera. I don't think you're following the discussion.

To Be Explicit: In the absence of the e4 feature, you basically cannot achieve a full range of flash control on Nikon bodies when using A or S mode. You are thus forced to M mode, which is the workaround/solution... Personally I prefer M mode most of the time regardless, but there are definitely some times where A is needed due to rapidly changing lighting conditions or walking between different areas.

In reality, the e4 setting on the D4 andD600, by disconnecting the camera from the flash, gives you an extra 2 stops of flash. Important to Moose and McNally under specialized circumstances but not to 99.99% of the rest of us.  Never heard any hue and cry about this until now.

Actually, the circumstances are not special or uncommon at all. People in Canon land do this all the time, because on their cameras it is easy. It's useful anywhere that A priority is useful and when the flash is intended to the dominant light. If you don't get that, maybe re-read this whole discussion a few times and learn some new technique

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David Hill
http://www.sanfranciscoweddingphotographer.com
San Francisco & San Jose, CA | Austin, TX
Wedding Photographer and Apparent Gearhead

What it boils down to is that with Nikons other than the D4 and now the D600 in A or S mode if you need to underexpose ambient by 3 plus stops AND over expose your flash flash by 3 plus stops you need to get out of CLS and go manual.

One of my favorite type of shots is of fellow bikers in the Arizona desert at sunset.  When I do these, I routinely underexpose the sky behind them to get a nice saturated sunset and then use Nikons CLS via Poppers to expose the bikes and riders. I've always enjoyed the full range of my D900 and D800s in those instances and don't remember ever going to M mode.

I know Moose and McNally, especially McNally (Mr. Flash himself) who, btw, has done fairly well before the D4 or D600 came along, do a lot of extra ordinary things but I guess I can't see many instances where folks would need to dial in a 3 stop overexposure into their strobes while simultaneously underexposing the background by 3 or more stops.  If that situation ever presents itself to me I won't have a problem switching to M and making the necessary settings.

Maybe people in Canon land know something those of us in Nikon land don't because while I've heard plenty of Canon guys yearning for a CLS equivalent on their cameras, until Moose brought it up, I never heard a complaint about this e4 thing before.

Since adding this e4 setting appears to be a firmware only "fix", maybe Nikon will add it to an update although I don't remember Nikon ever adding features through FW updates.

If you have a picture where you've used this particular 6 plus stop differential, I'd be interested in seeing it.  Always ready to learn new tricks.

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