CANON sensor development

Started Sep 13, 2012 | Discussions thread
Osiris30
Senior MemberPosts: 2,804
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Re: CANON sensor development
In reply to bobn2, Sep 20, 2012

Birdies in Fab land have been chirping about canon shopping work to third parties. Amd went down the same foolish road before bailing out and using third party fans. In fairness to both amd and canon third party semi fabs are an lot better today than 10 years ago.

bobn2 wrote:

aVolanche wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

aVolanche wrote:

aVolanche wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

aVolanche wrote:

ultimitsu wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

aim120 wrote:

You forget that Sony will make a sensor to who ever pays them.

And canon doesn't sell or has no customers for their sensors.So the R&D will be high.

Yes, that is a silly policy of Canon's - it needs to sell more sensors so it can afford the R&D to match Sony. I think they should merge their sensor interests in a JV with Panasonic and give Sony some competition.

I think the problem is no one wants to buy any sensor from canon these days, no one else went for x1.6 aps-c and now its FF sensor is both more expensive and worse performing than Sony's. besides, there are only three players in FF 135 DSLR arena - Sony, Nikon, Canon ...

What makes you think that Canon was even willing to sell it's 1.6 APS-C sensors? Just because Sony sells sensors does not mean Canon is selling sensors.

That was the whole basis of the discussion. Canon's own sensor volumes are maybe too low to fund the R&D to keep competitive with Sony, which produces far more sensors. If they want to be competitive they need to increase their volume, which means selling the sensors to other companies.

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Bob

Point is that Canon has not been in the sensor-selling business. Who will buy? Sony seems to have the market cornered.

Only because no-one is offering a better proposition. And the proposition can include not just electronic performance, also price, availability, design support and such like.

Why consider Canon's (no longer class-leading) sensors, even if there was any indication Canon wanted to do this?

The problem really is not that Canon Corporation does not have the resources, of course it does, but the current market does not provide a return on investment for the type of R&D outlay that will be needed. If the business plan involves increasing the market, maybe in partnership with another company like Panasonic, then the amount Canon can invest, and the expected return increases.

And the whole basis of the discussion from the OP, was sensor development (or lack of)....not selling sensors.

As I said above, the sensor development is predicated on the R&D investment, which in turn depends on the ROI, which in turn depends on the value of sensors sold.

It's all presumptive anyway, until Canon shows that it wishes to sell them. My take on Canon, is that it's a bull-headed company. That worked when they had class-leading sensors. They probably could have sold them...back then.

If their management can't react to changing times, in the end the company will fail - look at Kodak.
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Bob

I still say this is all pure speculation. You said " but the current market does not provide a return on investment for the type of R&D outlay that will be needed".

It certainly does for Sony!

Yes, because Sony sells a lot more sensors than Canon, more sales generate more return. I mena't Canon's current market, not the whole market.

You said "the sensor development is predicated on the R&D investment, which in turn depends on the ROI, which in turn depends on the value of sensors sold".

Sure it does.....But,again,* it assumes Canon wants to get into the sensor selling business*. Do you know for a fact that this is their business model? To sell sensors?

It clearly isn't at the moment, but they need to find some way of increasing the sales of their sensors.

That's why I said I think Canon is bull-headed. They seem content as they are. They certainly seem to play to the beat of a different drummer....and it seems they make some odd business decisions.

I think they made a key decision, and a wrong one, in tying up capital in semiconductor manufacturing plant. Much of their sensor policy now is about ensuring utilisation of that plant, rather than making the most competitive sensors.

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Bob

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