Is Gay Rights a left wing issue?

Started May 11, 2012 | Discussions thread
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Re: Found them - technical Notes II
In reply to bobn2, May 15, 2012

bobn2 wrote:

Chato wrote:

You cannot do any of these things with the resources that civilisation supplies - So you are left arguing that only "dynamic: pople creatre civilisation, when inn fact you're putting the plow before the horse...

No, I'm putting the gathering before the plough. Some societies did progress (this is not a loaded term, I just mean it in the usual societal sense, I'm not suggesting a 'progressed' society is better than a primitive one, just that it has progressed), other ones did not, you cannot assume that the ones who did not behave the same way as the ones who progressed, before they progressed.

Sure you are. Hunter gather's in Mesopotamia were in a better place to exploit agriculture, than those with the miserable soil of a rain forest. Grains grow in abundance in places like that, yet otherwise propvide little natural food. Whereas those in a rainforest have abundant fruit but poor soil.

Those who lived in Eygpt or Mesopotamia, or the Ganges River valleys, or the Tellow River valleys faced similar conditions and developed a similar response - Civilisation was born out of necessity.

Wh invented agriculture and allowed the creation of civilisation, is not a comment on the people invilved but circumstances beyone control.

Evidence again, Dave. Why is it that people living in all sorts of environments developed agriculture, while people living in the same sorts of environments didn't?

Plain and simple such is not the case. My European ancestors learned agriculture, we didn't develop it. And for that matter the same holds true for ALL of Northern Europe.

Just to recap where we are coming from (in case you get diverted with the detail of your 'examples'), you are trying to argue that all hunter gatherer communities are essentially the same, and the ones that exist today are representative of prehistoric ones, and therefore these hunter gatherer societies represent out natural genetic state (for all of us). I'm saying that you have yet to demonstrate that, and that there must be some reason, maybe social differences, why some societies are still hunter gatherer and others aren't, and I don't think that you can credibly argue that it is solely down to lack of resources.

I argue that it's the lack of "Civilisation" and that civilisation is based on a food supply not subject to the vagaries of nature. That once civilisation gets started, the resulting process is inevitable. In America, the Natives had just discovered how to make bronze when Columbus discovered them. Iron would have been the logical result if they had had more time. But Meso America was a thousand years behind the Old World. The HIttites invented Iron a thousand years after bronze was first used.

You are arguing, whether you like it or not, that these people consciously choose to be issolated

Agriculture became a necessity in some areas and unknown in others. In some of these isolated areas, the ability to learn about agriculture was lacking simply because there was no opportunity to learn it.


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